Detached shot put to good use

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bahdahbum
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Detached shot put to good use

Post by bahdahbum » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:58 pm

I was often wondering how to use detached shot . Now I know :P
Someone came to a trounament , used one of the late armies with battle groups of 5 musket, bayonet guys ( 8 points ) and one pike ( 5 points ) . He detached all the shots of 6 BG , created 5 BG of exclusively 6 x musket bayonet and one of 6 pikes . So he got the 5 BG of medium foot , musket bayonet for 8 points x 6 bases x 5 BG instead of 9 points per base .

An easy way not to expend too many points ... :D

quackstheking
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Post by quackstheking » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:15 pm

Remember you can only detach the shot from up to half the Battle Groups. To do 6 he would have had to have 12 BG's to start with.

Don

bahdahbum
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Post by bahdahbum » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:58 pm

He had all necessary BG .

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:01 pm

Did you get a chance to go for the big pike block? Seems like the only thing on the table that couldn't shoot back at you.
Never tried the later stuff ourselves yet, we keep going earlier ourselves I find the lists more interesting.

footslogger
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Re: Detached shot put to good use

Post by footslogger » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:35 pm

bahdahbum wrote:I was often wondering how to use detached shot . Now I know :P
Someone came to a trounament , used one of the late armies with battle groups of 5 musket, bayonet guys ( 8 points ) and one pike ( 5 points ) . He detached all the shots of 6 BG , created 5 BG of exclusively 6 x musket bayonet and one of 6 pikes . So he got the 5 BG of medium foot , musket bayonet for 8 points x 6 bases x 5 BG instead of 9 points per base .

An easy way not to expend too many points ... :D
If he pointed out as if they were detached, he did it wrong. He needs to have a starting list with them pointed out as if they are not detached, and then a second list showing how they are detached. p183

rbodleyscott
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Re: Detached shot put to good use

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:54 am

bahdahbum wrote:I was often wondering how to use detached shot . Now I know :P
Someone came to a trounament , used one of the late armies with battle groups of 5 musket, bayonet guys ( 8 points ) and one pike ( 5 points ) . He detached all the shots of 6 BG , created 5 BG of exclusively 6 x musket bayonet and one of 6 pikes . So he got the 5 BG of medium foot , musket bayonet for 8 points x 6 bases x 5 BG instead of 9 points per base .

An easy way not to expend too many points ... :D
Rest assured that the designers were well aware of this, but decided that it wasn't so massive an advantage that it needed to be prevented/costed.

Note that any regimental guns would have to stay with the pikes. The rules do not allow them to be detached.

bahdahbum
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Post by bahdahbum » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:47 am

he had both lists and it was a fearsome opponent . The only one to nearly win a game with hi was the ottoman who forced him to assault fortifications . What the cunning player did was to choose as many terrains as possible ...and move his - now - medium foot BG in bad terrain . An army with many medium foot , no cavalry ( he did not need it with all his bayonets) no artillery ..he won all his games . Mind you I do not complain, just point out a good use of detached shots

rbodleyscott
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Re: Detached shot put to good use

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:18 am

bahdahbum wrote:I was often wondering how to use detached shot . Now I know :P
Someone came to a trounament , used one of the late armies with battle groups of 5 musket, bayonet guys ( 8 points ) and one pike ( 5 points ) . He detached all the shots of 6 BG , created 5 BG of exclusively 6 x musket bayonet and one of 6 pikes . So he got the 5 BG of medium foot , musket bayonet for 8 points x 6 bases x 5 BG instead of 9 points per base .

An easy way not to expend too many points ... :D
Thinking a bit more about this:

He saved 30 points, for which he got a "free" BG of 6 pike fit for nothing except to support artillery.

As a penalty, none of his Bayonet BG could have Regimental Guns, and he had to have 6 more BGs of pike and shot not counting as MF with bayonet.

Looked at this way, it is a viable option, but not a no-brainer compared with using an army with normal Bayonet MF BGs, especially if allowed RGs.

By the way, what army was it?

timmy1
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Post by timmy1 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:49 am

Richard, I am guessing but I believe Jacques is referring to

Carlemo Andrea Lo Moro ( colonial Dutch ) - it would be the post 1691 option.

bahdahbum
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Post by bahdahbum » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:04 am

Yes it was . With lot's of firing he killed many ennemies :D he did not need regimental guns

timmy1
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Post by timmy1 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:06 am

I bet. I wonder where I find a uniform guide for Colonial Dutch from 1691... and who makes the figures...?

kevinj
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Post by kevinj » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:20 am

I suspect the generic TYW/ECW "Bloke with Musket" does the job...

footslogger
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Re: Detached shot put to good use

Post by footslogger » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:50 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
bahdahbum wrote:I was often wondering how to use detached shot . Now I know :P
Someone came to a trounament , used one of the late armies with battle groups of 5 musket, bayonet guys ( 8 points ) and one pike ( 5 points ) . He detached all the shots of 6 BG , created 5 BG of exclusively 6 x musket bayonet and one of 6 pikes . So he got the 5 BG of medium foot , musket bayonet for 8 points x 6 bases x 5 BG instead of 9 points per base .

An easy way not to expend too many points ... :D
Thinking a bit more about this:

He saved 30 points, for which he got a "free" BG of 6 pike fit for nothing except to support artillery.
Um, how did he save 30 points? He had to have the two lists for the tournament, and when you create the second list (with the detached shot), you don't get to use the points to buy something you don't get in the first list.

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:10 pm

The strictly musket/bayonet dudes are 9pts each, but when with pikes they drop to 8pts each. So by building 12 BG of pike/bayonet foot, then detaching half of them, he saves the point per base of the bayonet dudes alone.

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:32 pm

still he can't go out and spend those 30 points elsewhere so really any point savings are irrelevant. Sounds like he combined lucky shooting dice lots of terrain with the all shot BG's to win his games. Must have been a nasty surprise to go up against him.

rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:55 pm

deadtorius wrote:still he can't go out and spend those 30 points elsewhere.
For the cost of 5 BG of 6 MF Musket, Bayonet = 270 points

he got

6 BGs of 5 Musket, Bayonet + 1 HF Pike = 270 points

which (when he detached the shot) became

5 BGs of 6 MF Musket, Bayonet
1 BG of 6 HF Pike

Thus he got 1 BG of 6 pikes free (but was only able to do so because he bought at least 12 BGs of pike/shot in total, for 540 points).

He could instead have chosen to spend the 540 points on 10 BGs of 6 MF Musket, Bayonet, which might, conceivably, have worked even better. (Or not).

footslogger
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Post by footslogger » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:29 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
deadtorius wrote:still he can't go out and spend those 30 points elsewhere.
For the cost of 5 BG of 6 MF Musket, Bayonet = 270 points

he got

6 BGs of 5 Musket, Bayonet + 1 HF Pike = 270 points

which (when he detached the shot) became

5 BGs of 6 MF Musket, Bayonet
1 BG of 6 HF Pike

Thus he got 1 BG of 6 pikes free (but was only able to do so because he bought at least 12 BGs of pike/shot in total, for 540 points).

He could instead have chosen to spend the 540 points on 10 BGs of 6 MF Musket, Bayonet, which might, conceivably, have worked even better. (Or not).
Ah, I see. So a quirk in the costing, he wasn't omitting rules. That's clever I guess. Not worth fixing I would think.

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:24 am

seems to have worked for him that time, perhaps next time he wont get so lucky with dice or his opponent will get lucky with death rolls and avoid most of the shooting casualties. Seen it happen many times, especially in our last game :twisted:

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:28 am

ya ya...

shall we mention the previous 3 games??

flamingpig0
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Post by flamingpig0 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:17 pm

Did 1690's armies detach shot ??

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