Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:42 pm

This AAR looks very promising regarding the GS v3.0 balance. We wanted all along to make it necessary for the Allies to focus on the Atlantic to get control. So far this seems to work. If you don't build up a healthy naval force you won't get many convoys home. That means an Allied intervention in France a bit later. This means Russia will be on their own till 1943 and the turn will probably change then instead of late 1942.

In Egypt I have a feeling that Vokt expects an Axis push into Iraq so Vokt places stumble blocks to slow down the Axis advance. He doesn't know that Plaid is content with just holding the Suez. Anyway, it means a lot of Allied units are tied up in Palestine and Trans-Jordan.

The German advance in Russia is not spectacular, but decent progress has been made. Being defensive before the winter should mean the Russians can't expect to inflict a lot of losses. So the German 1942 Spring offensive will be very interesting to watch.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by richardsd » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:20 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:This AAR looks very promising regarding the GS v3.0 balance. We wanted all along to make it necessary for the Allies to focus on the Atlantic to get control. So far this seems to work. If you don't build up a healthy naval force you won't get many convoys home. That means an Allied intervention in France a bit later. This means Russia will be on their own till 1943 and the turn will probably change then instead of late 1942.

In Egypt I have a feeling that Vokt expects an Axis push into Iraq so Vokt places stumble blocks to slow down the Axis advance. He doesn't know that Plaid is content with just holding the Suez. Anyway, it means a lot of Allied units are tied up in Palestine and Trans-Jordan.

The German advance in Russia is not spectacular, but decent progress has been made. Being defensive before the winter should mean the Russians can't expect to inflict a lot of losses. So the German 1942 Spring offensive will be very interesting to watch.
I am very interested to see where the Axis 42 campaign is focussed in Russia - also I think Plaid is very lucky he didn't lose the SS MECH, I would have killed and then the risk is do the Axis advance another turn to counter attack

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:04 am

This turn brought surprising fair turn in the East.

Could be a gift for someone like Morris, who sieges Moscow this time, but not in my case. Here it is a problem, as Red Army will easily cross no man's land in single turn.

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Still we do our best to disengage in orderly fashion. Some cities left unguarded, but they are already destroyed and will take even more damage from scorched earth, when russians enter them. I don't want my troops dying in soviet-favouring weather conditions for some ruins at this stage of game.

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Good side of fair weather was operational freedom for Luftwaffe. Moscow and Leningrad bombed again. Soviet fighter intercepted and got 2:1 result in german favour. I expected better, but atleast we did not lost.

In the south stukas inflicted heavy damage to soviet Black Sea fleet reducing it to 3 steps. Lost 2 TAC steps myself, but worth it I think - this thing constantly harassing units on shore hexes should be better dealt with.

What UK troops are doing now in Egypt is... strange. Just in case RM battleships are alarmed and going to land some hits on this troops - RN MED task force is far from here, in Gibraltar.

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Also this turn Kriegsmarine had some luck - not only they randomly ran into 48 PP convoy, during allied turn it bumped into UF 5, originally used for spotting, meaning convoy being completely sunk here.
Sub upgrade level 2 really helps. Now we inflict 15-20 damage instead of ~10 with 0 level, aswell subs now have some protection from DDs and even air attacks.
This turn "remade" UF 3 is comissioned and build of UF 7 ordered.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:07 am

Red army troops follow our retreat and enter some empty cities.

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During out turn weather becomes mud.

We do only minor retreats here and there, since soviet attack is unlikely with mud weather.
Still, pulled my HQ armour in the south back from direct attack of soviet mech. Troops, which can be attacked, have good effectiveness and entrenched properly. Most of axis units can't be attacked at all because of ZoCs.

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Much to my surprise SW starts at the end of axis turn. It has some unpleasant consequences, as I expected this allied turn to be mud and SW starting in December.
So my airpower is not in sentry mode and some valueable units (e.g. panzers south of Smolensk) are open for direct attacks.
In the South only 1 corps can be attacked, but if it retreats some other units will become exposed.
Still, no major damage expected, as soviets are also not very ready for SW - their tanks and shock troops are rather far from front and effectiveness of frontline ones is around 50-60.

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And a picture of situation in Egypt. Looks like allies do not have offensive plans for now.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by richardsd » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:21 am

I expect you will lose a few ARM steps

Egypt just looks like the Allies are trying to stop you advancing

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:18 am

richardsd wrote: I am very interested to see where the Axis 42 campaign is focussed in Russia - also I think Plaid is very lucky he didn't lose the SS MECH, I would have killed and then the risk is do the Axis advance another turn to counter attack
SS mech had full strength and was in city (Kursk), while soviet troops had effectiveness around 60 and initial tech, so it was not sure kill.
And in case of fair weather next turn they would be open for large armour counterattack. So it was calculated risk and I almost knew that no attack will happen.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by richardsd » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:53 am

Plaid wrote:
richardsd wrote: I am very interested to see where the Axis 42 campaign is focussed in Russia - also I think Plaid is very lucky he didn't lose the SS MECH, I would have killed and then the risk is do the Axis advance another turn to counter attack
SS mech had full strength and was in city (Kursk), while soviet troops had effectiveness around 60 and initial tech, so it was not sure kill.
And in case of fair weather next turn they would be open for large armour counterattack. So it was calculated risk and I almost knew that no attack will happen.
all true, but would you have counter attacked if he had - would have been unpleasent with the weather as it has turned out

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Morris » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:45 pm

It seems only Italian corps can accomplish the face to face sitting war at Suez . The Panzers & FTR should go to somewhere which is more important like Russia . :)

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:26 pm

Morris wrote:It seems only Italian corps can accomplish the face to face sitting war at Suez . The Panzers & FTR should go to somewhere which is more important like Russia . :)
Probably you are right. Tanks and fithers just stand there to show that we are strong and allies should not try attacking. Works for now.
If I evacuate all good troops Italian line will collapse, like it always happens at Tobruk (in normal games).

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by _Augustus_ » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:43 pm

Kudos for taking the time to produce the AAR, Sir!

I'd say the panzers and fighters are in a good place right where they are in Egypt for now. Maybe Vokt is planning to move forward in the Med same time as the Soviet winter offensive gets away. It's good to have a force suitable for a counter offensive at hand in Egypt I reckon.

The mere presence of the panzers etc. might be enough to keep him from doing the offensive in the Med. Plaid has told that judging from past experience that Vokt isn't an aggressive player. So there's a good chance that keeping the German force in Egypt and visible to him keeps him from attacking and the Med theater from escalating. That saves PPs for Plaid and allows him to keep his goal(Suez) for free. Saved PPs gained by a prolonged frozen situation in the Med should add up quite nicely for couple totally new units to be send the Russia in the Spring.

Are you going to do some shore borbardment with the Italian ships on UK FTRs? Might be a worthy exchange of PPs between naval repair cost to Italy and costly FTR repair for UK even if the UK subs interfere?

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:19 pm

_Augustus_ wrote:Kudos for taking the time to produce the AAR, Sir!

I'd say the panzers and fighters are in a good place right where they are in Egypt for now. Maybe Vokt is planning to move forward in the Med same time as the Soviet winter offensive gets away. It's good to have a force suitable for a counter offensive at hand in Egypt I reckon.

The mere presence of the panzers etc. might be enough to keep him from doing the offensive in the Med. Plaid has told that judging from past experience that Vokt isn't an aggressive player. So there's a good chance that keeping the German force in Egypt and visible to him keeps him from attacking and the Med theater from escalating. That saves PPs for Plaid and allows him to keep his goal(Suez) for free. Saved PPs gained by a prolonged frozen situation in the Med should add up quite nicely for couple totally new units to be send the Russia in the Spring.

Are you going to do some shore borbardment with the Italian ships on UK FTRs? Might be a worthy exchange of PPs between naval repair cost to Italy and costly FTR repair for UK even if the UK subs interfere?
Thanks for following!

About Egypt - my thoughts exactly. Sun Tzu said 'The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.' I think this saying is very true for axis who have to face much superiour enemies in terms of production. No fighting is much better then PP eschange for this sidefront and panzers secure this probably.

As far as I remember attacking fighters with BBs was always bad idea unless these fighters are really low on effectiveness (and even then never seen BB doing more then 1 damage), so I am not going to shoot.
I believe surface ship attacking airbase is worse then aircraft attacking ship because defender shoots first, but I am not sure about this one.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:26 pm

Soviet winter offensive started this turn, but thanks to our preparations damage is minimal (for now).

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Only one corps was attacked (and got good 4:3 result) and couple of air units lost few steps.

Looks like good soviet units are concentrated in the south and in the center, so our troops north of Gomel will try to hold their ground - little or no attacks expected here. Generally I don't like this two panzer korps being exposed in the frontline, but I see no way to disengage for them other then full retreat and leaving Smolensk, which is also not good.

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And in the South we retreat to Dnepr line and will try to hold it. Hopefully no soviet attacks here this turn aswell.

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Finland front is static, but soviets just received full strength partisan in quite annoying spot.

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Italain battleships seen some action this turn knocking out 3 steps of australian infantry in Gaza area.

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28 PP convoy spotted with last UF move only to disappear in the FoW after turn. I guess we will spot it again next turn, question is if it will be escorted.

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Here is (almost - it includes few steps lost this turn aswell) pre-SW casualties chart.

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I consider German, Italian, UK and USSR casualties all well below average by this date.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Cybvep » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:41 pm

Yeah, it hasn't been a very bloody game so far. This means that 1942-1943 will be even more important and epic than usual, because both sides will face each other with full strength.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:46 am

1942 starts and USA enters the war.

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Soviet troops focus their efforts in Smolensk area this time. Quita painful for us - Manstein HQ panzer korps reduced to 4 steps (aswell as korps in Smolensk being reduced to 2 steps, but this one is considered expendable).

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In the South quiet this turn, but deffinetely will change next turn, as axis troops here receive "no step back" order for the rest of SW.

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Forces near Smolensk ordered to retreat. No perfrect disengage here - some troops are exposed to attacks. I just hope that Manstein's HQ corps will not be destroyed by 2 TAC bomber attacks - will be major loss here. Any other casualties are OK.

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And here is southern portion of the front, where we are making a stand. Note, that I left some empty hexes behind my line for retreats instead of building monolith double line - it is done to avoid forward retreats. Retreat back is only hole in a line, retreat forward is both hole and sure death for unit, so better let them retreat back.

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In the MED australians retreat from the shores, so do our BBs.

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Good news from Atlantic - convoy tracked down and engaged for 17 points of damage. Likely to be finished off next turn.

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And since 1942 just started, I will provide you pictures of research progress :

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Note that Italy has almost 500 free PPs. Waiting for dog fight and AT tech to purchase some units for them. I can afford it, since there is no urgent need for italian troops anywhere now.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:48 am

Soviet offensive goes on.

In the center things seems under control - even 2 step corps from Smolensk survived at 1 step somehow. Northern front is completely static apart from shore bombardment.

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In the south we lost romanian infantry corps. Red airforce also tryed to harass our pz.gr. south of Dnepropetrovsk.

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And here are pictures of our reactions :

In the center retreat across the Dnepr is almost complete. Noteable even here - I noteced that soviet fighters are busy in the southern offensive and decided to bomb Moscow at winter (airbases are in Latvia, no SW here). 2 bombers reduced soviet capital to 0 PP production one more time.

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In the south also some unit shuffling. Tryed to bomb soviet southern mech (Vatutin's HQ) with 2 italian TACs. Results are not great, but it lost a step and reasonable ammount of effectiveness. Italian fighter got quite bad roll when escorting, but Italy at the moment can easily pay for repairs.

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Tracked down 11 PP convoy from previous post and sunk it.
Also picture features axis build queue.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:13 am

Intensive fighting in Russia continues.

This turn we lost 2 infantry corps in forests near Smolensk (damaged one and full strength)
Gomel defenders and another corps north of Kiev are in trouble. Soviet fighters attacked italian TAC base (visible because I used TACs last turn) inflicting high 4 steps of damage.

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In our turn we finish Dnepr defensive line in the center with no valueable panzer formations exposed to attack.

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In the south positions are also reinforced, though we are likely going to lose Gomel anyway. Fate of red 5 strength corps is also a question, though I believe it survives - only one cross river ground attack availiable against it.

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Good news - SW might end very this allied turn, as it lasted for 5 turns already (allied turns 41, 42, 43, 44, 45). Correct me if I forgotten the rules and SW lasts more turns nowadays.

Soviet convoy spotted and attacked for 14 PP damage.

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Central UK convoy also spotted, but well protected.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:13 pm

During allied turn SW ends and normal winter starts and at our turn we got mud, meaning likely no action for next turn.

Annoying attack on my TAC base occured, reducing german bomber to 6 steps. And failed soviet attack on Pskov - here we got 4:1 in wehrmacth favour. Also Gomel lost (this one was expected).

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Axis armies are now focusing on repairs and upgrades. Offensive actions will be started withing few turns.

9 PPs northern convoy found and sunk.

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Post - SW casualties screen :

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:14 pm

Winter in the east, so no action there.

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Looks like soviets decided not to retreat at all and make a stand at Dnepr in 1942. I hope I will be able to destroy lots of units in this situation.

Only noteable even this turn is Kriegsmarine surface fleet reducing soviet convoy to 2 PPs.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:20 pm

Classified RN message decoded :
Guessing a strong german sub escorting RN did not even dare to respond to Kriegsmarine action in Norwegian sea.
In fact closest sub was in Wilhelshaven and it was only one flotilla.

But probably real reason, why RN did not engage was the fact, that most of it is now busy escorting 3 troop transports to the MED.

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Weather in USSR is still mud, so no action there and no need to take pictures.
Otherwise this turn was famous for disappointing fighter performance.

First of all lutfwaffe MED airforce traded steps with RAF with 6:7 result in RAF favour. Was not good idea to remove sentry, as Victor have 3 fighters here and can attack one of my fighters after it intercepts. Now I put Luftwaffe on sentry. If this fighters keep scoring negarive results even now, I will evacuate them from here.

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And another disappointment - I have forgotten, that I am happy owner of upgraded Italian FTRs, so it was total surprise that one deployed in Milan was in range to intercept RAF bomber, going for Lorrein. Sadly it was escorted, so 1:3 result comes.

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Re: Plaid (axis) vs Vokt (allies) GS 3.0 beta AAR

Post by Plaid » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:47 pm

This turn we discovered critical tech (+1 ground attack for infantry), so only probing attacks in Russia, as bulk of my forces were upgraded.

Pre-turn:

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In the north we pushed a bit from Pskov to Velikie Luki, destroying 2 corps and 1 garrison. Moscow and Leningrad bombed one more time.

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In the south some attacks in Crimea, but garrison (red one) refused to retreat much to my surprise.
Also we destroy 2 garrisons and occupie manganese mines.

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Finland front - failed to destroy garrison near Pertozavodsk and got disappointing rolls against one near Leningrad.

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All quiet in Egypt, Luftwaffe fighters rebase our of RAF sight.

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Another northern convoy sunk - small one though.

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