Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:09 pm

Turn 71. July, 2 1943.

Western front Axis turn. Railed 2 German corps to Rennes. Furthermore, German corps near Paris advanced north to Rouen:

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Western front Allies turn. Cherbourg was taken by the Brits. USAF bombers heavily attacked couple of German corps units in Rennes, softening them enough for the British mech to land without problems, Allied unit even succeeding in destroying one of them:

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Eastern front Axis turn. Another Axis counterattack in the south destroyed a Soviet corps:

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Eastern front Allies turn. Major Red Army offensive east of Dnepropetrovsk, destroyed 4 German corps, Italian armoured and a Romanian corps. Furthermore, a German corps was left at very low strength and unsupplied. This offensive operation counted with a massive air support, VVS providing many air strikes from tacs:

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Med. Intense air warfare now occurringin this scenario. The fact is that Luftwaffe is doing well, winning most of air combats vs RAF. Anyway, as now Axis air power in Italy is not that formidable, Allies tentatively went for Husky:

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Last edited by Vokt on Sat May 27, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vokt
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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:39 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:I think the big question should be how Victor managed to get so many air units so early. Strategic bombers and fighters are very expensive. I've never been able to have such an effective strategic campaign so early. I wonder if Victor ignored production of new naval units (CV's, BB's) except some DD's. That could free up some PP's for extra air units. However, the transports from USA would be very vulnerable to wolfpacks.

I've seen Allied players starved of PP's since my German wolfpacks sink a lot of convoys. That means fewer PP's for air units.
I haven't had the time to reply to this post so there you go. I put my bet on strategic campaign from the start (this is mentioned in 1st post objectives list). So I modified a little what I use to do with UK regarding purchasing of units and labs. I use to buy 2 tacs for Egypt when in this game I bought only one. There you have (almost) PP's for a strat unit. I use to buy a 3rd naval UK lab and I have only bought 2 in this game. Not buying 3rd lab means PP's available for a strat purchase. Finally, I use to buy more British DD's. I don't think UK needs more BB's or carrier units than those that came initially.

Regarding convoys, many of them make their way to UK, specially in bad weather when it's harder for German sub units to spot them. That's more PP's for UK.

Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:11 pm

Turn 72. July 22, 1943.

Western front Axis turn. Wehrmacht counterattack in Normandy killed one of the British paratrooper units. This action counted with the support of Luftwaffe that is located in central France:

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Western front Allies turn. Both German corps units in northern France opposing the landings were destroyed. German garrison in Paris was heavily bombed by Allied tactical air forces which might help to quickly take the French capital, thus gaining supply level 5 for the recently landed units:

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Eastern front Axis turn. The Axis is not giving up SE of Dnepropetrovsk and so another counterattack carried out by mobile Axis minors units, killed a Soviet mech and left much battered a Guards mech:

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Eastern front Allies turn. Soviet reply was to destroy Hungarian mech and Romanian corps. Intense air combats (that are being won by VVS) occured:

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Med. In Axis turn, Italian and German units in Sicily moved south to oppose the landings. In Allies turn, a landing fleet, heavily escorted, approached Sicily:

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Last edited by Vokt on Sat May 27, 2017 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cybvep
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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Cybvep » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:17 pm

Your Overlord is not very strong and you don't seem to have the reserve in England. However, the Axis is weak in France, which makes your job so much easier. You will have a port in 1944, which is a great starting point.

Vokt
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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:43 am

Cybvep wrote:Your Overlord is not very strong and you don't seem to have the reserve in England. However, the Axis is weak in France, which makes your job so much easier. You will have a port in 1944, which is a great starting point.
One of the things that made me give a try to a 1943 landing operation in northern France, is the scarce number of German units at sight in France. Still, there's a non-spotted area east of Nantes and south of Loire river where potential German reserves could launch deadly counterattacks. Who knows. Anyway, for doing that they would have to count with good air support from Luftwaffe which on current game has been much weakened in the last turns.

The fact that Cherbourg isn't a fortress yet also helps,

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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:59 pm

Even if the 1943 Overlord fails it's a good idea to do. Germany will have to take units from the Med / Russia to destroy the Allied forces in France. That means the Allies can advance in the Med and Russia.

Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:02 pm

Turn 73. August 11, 1943.

Eastern front Axis turn. More German counterattacks E of Dnepropetrovsk. SS Panzerkorps and SS Wiking units were involved in a offensive action that killed a Guards mech and a Soviet corps:

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Eastern front Allies turn. Red Army destroyed Romanian corps and SS panzerkorps. Wide VVS air support for this offensive action. Wiking SS unit suffered badly either. Furthermore, the Soviets were able to attack and to batter a Luftwaffe air base:

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Western front Axis front. Germans gave up at oppossing the landings at the beaches and they are already building defensive positions along the Seine:

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Western front Allies turn. Brits took Rennes:

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Med Axis turn. Again, no Axis air forces attacks:

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Med Allies turn. Allies will soon start the landings in Sicily:

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Last edited by Vokt on Mon May 29, 2017 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Morris
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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Morris » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:04 pm

Cybvep wrote:
In real history , in 1943 , Berlin had been attacked , but it still had huge production power until late 1944 .
Yes, but the Luftwaffe was protecting German cities with interceptors (and AAs). In this game Plaid is not doing it, so you cannot really compare the two situations.
yes, hehehe , not defense Berlin 's sky is also unrealistic .....

Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:51 pm

Turn 74. August 31, 1943.

Eastern front Axis turn. Soviet corps destroyed in another German counterattack near Dnepropetrovsk. Near Vitebesk, there were some attacks either:

Vitebesk front:
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Southern front:
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Eastern front Allies turn. SE of Vitebesk, SS mech and German corps were destroyed due to Red Army attacks. In southern front, Wiking SS unit was finally destroyed:

Vitebesk front:
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Southern front:
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Western front. Germans are continuing with their build up. Allies are bringing more reinforcements. Strategic bombings this turn left many German cities, Lorraine resource and Paris with no PP's. Oil plants were hit too:

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Zoomed in image:
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Med Axis turn. Sicily is being further reinforced by the Axis:

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Med Allies turn. More Allied bombings. Still no landings:

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Atlantic. An update of this scenario now. German subs have continued to sink convoys, specially now that Allied DD's have been busy escorting US reinforcements for France. U-boats have good upgrades which allows them to obtain massive hits on the convoys. This Axis turn a central convoy at 51 steps was sunk by the attack of 3 German sub units. Futhermore, Kriegsmarine surface fleet has joined u-boats campaign and the 3 available units sunk a 45 steps northern convoy near Scapa Flow:

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Last edited by Vokt on Sun May 28, 2017 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Cybvep
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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Cybvep » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 pm

The Med looks like a slog for the Allies. I also think that you won't get very far in the West in 1943, but you will still have plenty of time to push forward in 1944-1945. However, as far as the Eastern Front is concerned, I think that it may soon become a total disaster for the Axis. All those ARMs and TACs will be nasty. And winter is coming.

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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:12 pm

Turn 75. September 20, 1943.

Eastern front. There wasn't any Axis offensive action. In Allies turn, Red Army offensive in Vitebesk-Mogilev sector continued: 2 German corps units were destroyed and 2-hexes gap was formed in Axis lines. In southern front, one more German corps was killed. Wide VVS support for these offensive actions:

Vitebesk front:
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Southern front:
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Western front Axis turn. Germans are gathering a sizeable force along the Seine:

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Western front Allies turn. More Allied air bombings both of Wehrmacht units and of cities/resources. At land, waiting for more reinforcements in order to start the advance to Paris:

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Med Axis turn. Only repairing of units. An Italian partisan spawned in Sardinia:

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Med Allies turn. Sicily landings commenced:

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Last edited by Vokt on Sun May 28, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:09 pm

Turn 76. October 10, 1943.

Eastern front Axis turn. Wehrmacht counterattack in Vitebesk front killed a Soviet corps 2xS of the city and closed the gap formed in last Allies turn. In southern front, a Soviet mech was destroyed:

Vitebesk front :
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Southern front:
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Eastern front Allies turn. Red army destroyed 2 German corps in Vitebesk front. Thus, Axis lines were breached again in the same place. In southern front, 2 German corps were killed and manganese resource was retaken:

Vitebesk front:
Image

Southern front:
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Western front. Allies advance a little:

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Med Axis turn. First German counterattack in Sicily. After being attacked by 2 German units, British mech was halved in strength:

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Med Allies turn. British mech destroyed German mech although most of the work was done by the previous Allied air and naval bombings:

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Atlantic Axis turn. 3 attacking German subs dared to make a full attack to a 3-DD's escorted southern convoy. Axis naval units much reduced the strength of the convoy but didn't sink it so the few remaining PP's were delivered:

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Atlantic Allies turn. Upgraded Allied DD's succeeded to sink one of the u-boats and to heavily damaged another one:

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Last edited by Vokt on Mon May 29, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:21 pm

Turn 77. October 30, 1943.

Eastern front Axis turn. Winter weather. The Axis started a general withdrawal. Several cities were abandoned and only Kiev and Vitebesk were left garrisoned. Only counterattack was 2xSW of Vitebesk, targeting leading Soviet armoured:

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Eastern front Allies turn. German corps 1xNW of Mogilev was killed. Guards and Tank armies are being concentrated in Mogilev-Smolensk in order to achieve the decisive breakthrough there:

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Western front. Allies entered Paris. Nearby German paratrooper unit ended quite battered after being heavily engaged by British infantry:

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Med Axis turn. In Sicily, Wehrmacht botched a counterattack again British beachhead. Germans achieved nothing and took heavy casualties. Italians, on the other hand, successfully hit US mech:

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Med Allies turn. Germans in Sicily were crushed, both corps units ending destroyed. Massive air and naval bombings were too much for the already battered Wehrmacht units:. Landings in Calabria commenced:

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Casualties screen:
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Last edited by Vokt on Mon May 29, 2017 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vokt
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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:42 pm

Turn 78. November 19, 1943.

Eastern front Axis turn. Mud weather. in the east. Axis continued its general withdrawal leaving only a Romanian garrison in Vitebesk:

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Eastern front Allies turn. Vitebesk and Pskov were retaken:

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Western front Axis turn. Wehrmacht units retreated to east bank of Yonne river whilst holding its positions along Seine river:

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Western front Allies turn. Allies decided to make a push NW of Paris. Axis defensive line was breached there and a bridgehead was formed on the northern bank of Seine river. Wehrmacht units around Reims were heavily bombed by Allied air forces that largely suppressed them:

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Med Axis turn. US mech destroyed in Sicily due to Italian counterattack. In Calabria, a strong Italian counterattack targeted Indian corps. Reinforcements sent to Sicily, one of them, intercepted by a RN sub:

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Med Allies turn. Italians were defeated in detail by a combination of naval and air bombings and attacks by ground units. Only Italian army weak units remain to defend the island. Italian transports further attacked:

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Last edited by Vokt on Tue May 30, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Cybvep » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:20 pm

Well, your air power is truly overwhelming and there is not much that the Axis can do with that. This is the cost of losing air superiority early on. However, it seems to me that you don't have enough land units.

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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by JimR » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:07 pm

I've been play testing version 3.2 in the Mac group. Like some other commentators on this thread, I don't think that the 3.2 air ranges are the problem. Although the new ranges allow Allied strategic bombers to reach Berlin from Britain, the extended air ranges also work to the advantage of the Axis in the earlier game when Germany has air superiority. What this ongoing Plaid vs Vokt AAR tells me is that the Axis player who chooses to follow a "historical" strategy really has to get Barbarossa right -- the right balance and quantity of forces, and the right timing. Otherwise the Axis is toast. As an Axis player (and as someone who has played various versions of CEAW for many years now) I find "getting Barbarossa right" to be a real challenge. Germany's PPs can't pay for everything, so in order to get a "really strong" Barbarossa where is the German player going to scrimp? Labs? U-boats? And perhaps I over-invest in tactical bombers (i.e., buy too many of them). They're fun and useful in 1941 and maybe 1942, but once Germany's costs begin to mount the tactical bombers become too expensive to maintain, and all but one or two tac units end up sitting depleted and idle. So instead, should we buy lots of fighters (relative to tactical bombers) and hope to be able to continue using them deeper into the game?

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Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:00 pm

Turn 79. December 9, 1943.

Eastern front Axis turn. General withdrawal continues:

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Eastern front Allies turn. Red Army hit hard the Germans around Minsk, destroying 3 corps units:

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Western front. Winter weather. Germans formed a defensive line along the Somme, hoping to contain the Allies. US mech kept on advancing reaching those Somme river defensive positions:

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Med Axis turn. Italian army counterattack near Palermo hit hard Australian HQ corps. In Calabria, Indian corps suffered from another attack that left Allied unit much battered:

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Med Allies turn. Allies destroyed both Italian corps and naval transport in Palermo only with naval and air attacks. That permitted landed units to get much needed repairs. Another Australian corps landed:

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Last edited by Vokt on Tue May 30, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Vokt » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:17 pm

JimR wrote:I've been play testing version 3.2 in the Mac group. Like some other commentators on this thread, I don't think that the 3.2 air ranges are the problem. Although the new ranges allow Allied strategic bombers to reach Berlin from Britain, the extended air ranges also work to the advantage of the Axis in the earlier game when Germany has air superiority. What this ongoing Plaid vs Vokt AAR tells me is that the Axis player who chooses to follow a "historical" strategy really has to get Barbarossa right -- the right balance and quantity of forces, and the right timing. Otherwise the Axis is toast. As an Axis player (and as someone who has played various versions of CEAW for many years now) I find "getting Barbarossa right" to be a real challenge. Germany's PPs can't pay for everything, so in order to get a "really strong" Barbarossa where is the German player going to scrimp? Labs? U-boats? And perhaps I over-invest in tactical bombers (i.e., buy too many of them). They're fun and useful in 1941 and maybe 1942, but once Germany's costs begin to mount the tactical bombers become too expensive to maintain, and all but one or two tac units end up sitting depleted and idle. So instead, should we buy lots of fighters (relative to tactical bombers) and hope to be able to continue using them deeper into the game?
Thanks for your comments. Since fighter units doesn't have build limits, a policy of buying a strong Luftwaffe fighters air fleet might work against intense allied strategic campaigns like the one in this game. Nearby commanders raising effectiveness plus xp gained turn after turn on the interceptions, can make Germany to set up a powerful fighter force by mid-game. Particularly, UK is much affected by the many fronts its units have to deal with, so expensive strats repairings can make the brits to cancel unescorted strategic bombings, thus giving chance for recovering PP's in Hamburg and Berlin.

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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by trulster » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:49 am

Have not played CEAW in a while, but is it possible that air power is slightly too effective? Being able to annihilate armour units solely through air strikes from 43 onwards may be a bit too much.

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Re: Plaid vs Vokt CEAW GS 3.2 beta AAR

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:17 am

My experience is that you can't expect to destroy full strength armor units just with airstrikes. You can use tactical bombers to soften them up and then finish them off with land attacks. Or finish off severely depleted armor units trying to run from the front.

Armor units get a high survivability with tech. Flak increases also. E. g. in the Overlord scenario the Allied tac bomber going after the King Tiger German panzer units can expect to inflict 0-2 hits and suffer the same amount of losses.

If you weaken the air power against armor then you have created moving fortresses for Germany that will be very hard for the Allies to deal with.

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