AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:53 pm

It survives because its in a fortification. Not possible to run thru units lile before with tanks.

Ive looked at my barbarossa and quite honestly i think the germans dont need that many tanks for 1941 in the new version.

First because you cannot advance super fast anymore in the south thus why would you spend so much oil moving tanks around

Second because mech corps are a lot more useful against fortificatiions.

My next barbarossa will be done with less tanks probably and more air cover instead.

Morris
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Morris » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:15 pm

supermax wrote:.

My next barbarossa will be done with less tanks probably and more air cover instead.

You mean the Barbarosa with me ? :)

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:44 pm

Isn't the number of panzers needed dependent upon how the Russians defend. If the Russians build quite a few garrison units to slow the German advance then the panzers are very handy. Their attack strength is better than the mech except against cities. Panzers can more easily cross river lines and cut-off supply to pockets of defenders.

If you purchase the panzers and don't upgrade them then they just burn 2 oil instead of 3. A lot of oil can be saved there. I think it's always good to get XP on the panzers quite early so they're ready to deal with Russian offensive units later on.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:06 am

Morris wrote:
supermax wrote:.

My next barbarossa will be done with less tanks probably and more air cover instead.

You mean the Barbarosa with me ? :)

Well see, when i am done mopping up the UK. Just took London this turn hey`?

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:06 am

Stauffenberg wrote:Isn't the number of panzers needed dependent upon how the Russians defend. If the Russians build quite a few garrison units to slow the German advance then the panzers are very handy. Their attack strength is better than the mech except against cities. Panzers can more easily cross river lines and cut-off supply to pockets of defenders.

If you purchase the panzers and don't upgrade them then they just burn 2 oil instead of 3. A lot of oil can be saved there. I think it's always good to get XP on the panzers quite early so they're ready to deal with Russian offensive units later on.
True. Well its not like i wont have any panzers, just not maybee 6 or 7.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:08 am

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:38 pm

I wonder what Vokt has done with his Russians. His main defense line looks weak and he hasn't built lots of stumbling blocks to slow down the advance.

That indicates he might have invested heavily in tanks and air units for the upcoming winter offensive. Have you checked the forces dialog box to get an indication of how many tanks and air units Russia might have?

It seems the Germans can easily cross the Don and with luck even reach Maikop or Stalingrad. I have never seen anything like that in GS v4.0. I my games I've seen some Russian defense with the Germans spending quite a bit of time getting across the Dnepr and then further east. Usually the decide to make their main line along the Donets river.

Maybe the extra panzers made it possible for such a swift movement in the south, maybe combined with the majority of the Axis forces being used in the south.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:53 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:I wonder what Vokt has done with his Russians. His main defense line looks weak and he hasn't built lots of stumbling blocks to slow down the advance.

That indicates he might have invested heavily in tanks and air units for the upcoming winter offensive. Have you checked the forces dialog box to get an indication of how many tanks and air units Russia might have?

It seems the Germans can easily cross the Don and with luck even reach Maikop or Stalingrad. I have never seen anything like that in GS v4.0. I my games I've seen some Russian defense with the Germans spending quite a bit of time getting across the Dnepr and then further east. Usually the decide to make their main line along the Donets river.

Maybe the extra panzers made it possible for such a swift movement in the south, maybe combined with the majority of the Axis forces being used in the south.
Yes, well i had 5 TAC in the south + the italian tacs and 5 Armor + all or most of my mechs again in the south. My original positionning was based on earlier versions of the game, and then after i realised the new OBB it was kinda late to reposition all units. But its quite simple i used brute force in the south and in the north well, there was nothing to stop me.

As to your assessment of a tank and air force, that is exactly my toughts, and so that is why i intend to not advance too much further this year, i may now even elect to forego of a risky Stalingrad run and stay in place with defense in mind, thus giving time for my troops to get effectiveness back up before the dreaded winter. I believe that if i get effectiveness back up to the 80' on most units, then winter should be easy as an hawaiian breeze.

Anyway i have goals to make happen in western europe, ships and air units to built, and that isnt going to happen if i loose too many steps and corps in Russia. So far i have not lost 1 german corps or GAR, so better stay that way. If i keep my card close, i will able to "offensivate" much stronger in summer 1942 (and on both sides of Europe at that), and as we both know this is when the freaking russians cannot retreat, in Front of Moscow as much as in the Caucasus. Then the war will be decided. In the meantime i can prepare my naval forces and beef up significantly my air units against the damned allies, AND finally play the trump card i have wanted to play there (a surprise i am preparing for you guys you might like it, its born out of the new OBB and new rules)

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:52 am

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:27 am

Are you sure you get 5 XP per convoy attack? I think we changed that to a lower value.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:33 am

With my BB and 2 DD i did yes, i checked before and after.

I can re-checkl the next time i attack a convoy?

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:22 pm

Oops. It looks like you're right. We have changed the sub vs convoy xp down from 5 to 3 to reduce xp for easy attacks for the subs.

Maybe it's a good thing Axis surface ships get decent xp against convoys since they take quite a big risk leaving the safety of ports. We rarely see the Bismarck or Admiral Graf Spee situations in GS games.
Please notice the naval_convoy_escort_xp. That means Allied ships adjacent to convoys will get xp for excorting. Naval vs air and ground attack is set to 0 xp to reduce exploits where the Allied player sent their surface ships attacking coastal Axis defenders just to get XP. They can still inflict damage, but also receive damage. So it's not as lucrative anymore collecting XP that way.

NAVAL_VS_NAVAL_ATTACK_XP 5
NAVAL_VS_NAVAL_DEFENSE_XP 5
NAVAL_VS_AIR_ATTACK_XP 0
NAVAL_VS_AIR_DEFENSE_XP 3
NAVAL_VS_GROUND_ATTACK_XP 0
NAVAL_VS_SUB_EVASION_ATTACK_XP 3
NAVAL_CONVOY_ESCORT_XP 1
SUB_VS_CONVOY_ATTACK_XP 3

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:44 pm

Agreed. The situation you see in this game (allied player doing nothing while surface ships are in Atlantic to attack convoys) will only rarely happen.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:01 pm

supermax wrote:Agreed. The situation you see in this game (allied player doing nothing while surface ships are in Atlantic to attack convoys) will only rarely happen.

Let hope i can keep at sea for a long time!

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:27 am

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:59 pm

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by petertodd » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:15 pm

I presume your BBs are being hit by subs in port--over and over again. I think this is an unrealistic aspect of the game, because while sub attacks in ports did happen on occasion, they would depend on finding an exploitable weakness in the port defenses (like nets). For this to happen 100% of the time when a sub attacks ships in port is ridiculous. This could easily be fixed by having a high probably of "evasion" in such attacks. Then we wouldn't be seeing the absurdity of supermax having to use four sub units to protect his BB in port.

I also think it would make sense to have a probability of evading when subs attack ships (other than convoys) on the high seas. Submerged subs were very slow and could not "chase" BBs, DDs and CVs. A certain amount of luck would be needed for them to be in a position to attack these much faster ships.

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:08 pm

petertodd wrote:I presume your BBs are being hit by subs in port--over and over again. I think this is an unrealistic aspect of the game, because while sub attacks in ports did happen on occasion, they would depend on finding an exploitable weakness in the port defenses (like nets). For this to happen 100% of the time when a sub attacks ships in port is ridiculous. This could easily be fixed by having a high probably of "evasion" in such attacks. Then we wouldn't be seeing the absurdity of supermax having to use four sub units to protect his BB in port.

I also think it would make sense to have a probability of evading when subs attack ships (other than convoys) on the high seas. Submerged subs were very slow and could not "chase" BBs, DDs and CVs. A certain amount of luck would be needed for them to be in a position to attack these much faster ships.

I agree with what you say, all surface ships are highly vulnerable to subs. This makes the british stay in port for most od 1940 and 1941 since they can be ambushed by 4 or 5 subs and sunk. This rarely happened in reality. Maybee we should increase anti sub value. Subs were built after all to attack convoys not be an almost indestructible high performance surface unit thats invisble and hard to attack.

Subs are too strong in my opinion

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:20 pm

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Carlos_Danger » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:51 pm

That is impressive a double line of mostly all Germans Corps from Leningrad to Rostov!

Russian's are going to attack at Sumy that's guaranteed!

In version 3.1 I thought the Russian Guard Mech that came with the Siberia Reserve were too powerful and as the Germans you were better off retreating than standing, fighting and dying against the Russian Guard Mech in Severe Winter. I hope the Russian Guard Mech have been tone down in 4.0

Looking forward to the Spring!

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