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Scottbot
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Post by Scottbot » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:00 pm

For knights, I imagine they will do something along the lines of not giving them a dice penalty when they have taken 25% losses (and maybe even 50% losses) to simulate their mechanic in the TT game. i.e. in the TT game, a 2x2 unit of Knights will always fight with 4 dice until it loses it's 3rd (75%) stand.

I'm not a tester, so don't know, but that's what I'd do :)

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Post by TheGrayMouser » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:58 pm

Scottbot wrote:For knights, I imagine they will do something along the lines of not giving them a dice penalty when they have taken 25% losses (and maybe even 50% losses) to simulate their mechanic in the TT game. i.e. in the TT game, a 2x2 unit of Knights will always fight with 4 dice until it loses it's 3rd (75%) stand.

I'm not a tester, so don't know, but that's what I'd do :)
Actually the current help file (I believe under combat mechanism) do refer to knights not losing any combat power until under 50% casualties...... I find this confusing as it implies other units do so ( I know that pikes lose a dice @ 75% that much is clear but do other units??) My own experiance seems to suggest that all units, once showing 2 skulls generally fair poorly in combat..(not refering to auto rout but in general)

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Post by batesmotel » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:08 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote:
Scottbot wrote:For knights, I imagine they will do something along the lines of not giving them a dice penalty when they have taken 25% losses (and maybe even 50% losses) to simulate their mechanic in the TT game. i.e. in the TT game, a 2x2 unit of Knights will always fight with 4 dice until it loses it's 3rd (75%) stand.

I'm not a tester, so don't know, but that's what I'd do :)
Actually the current help file (I believe under combat mechanism) do refer to knights not losing any combat power until under 50% casualties...... I find this confusing as it implies other units do so ( I know that pikes lose a dice @ 75% that much is clear but do other units??) My own experiance seems to suggest that all units, once showing 2 skulls generally fair poorly in combat..(not refering to auto rout but in general)
Pikes lose a POA when at or below 75%. All normal troops (all except Knights, elephants, chariots, battle wagons, artillery) lose an attack as well, I believe.

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TheGrayMouser
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Post by TheGrayMouser » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:32 pm

Hmm, if this is so it appears the rules have struck again in being ambiguous, I mean they specifically mention pikes as losing the pike + once below 75% and then deteriorate even furter after 50%, I kind of thought that is what made pikes unique, ie really good combat power but can degrade quickly.... they kind of lose that specialness if all other regular units degrade in the same way...

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Post by deeter » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:03 pm

No, pikes and spears are unique in strength generating POAs, but all units lose dice baised on their strength loss.

Deeter

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Post by TheGrayMouser » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:09 pm

Ah that makes sense, funny how something so simple often eludes me
cheers!

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Post by deeter » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:03 pm

Playing on the TT is a big help in understanding the PC game's inner workings.

Deeter

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Post by ScipioTerra » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:55 pm

Ok, my pre-order is in.

I am becoming concerned about the pricing issue.

If it isn't already, FoG PC is nearly the most expensive computer game in history and there are what -9 or so more installments at 19.99 Euros each before it is all done? I hope SoA has a lot more than just new units.

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Post by Geordietaf » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:36 pm

If you go, for example, to the Matrix Website and look at games like War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition I think you will find there are many games a lot more expensive than FoG. Bear in mind also that the Army packs are optional and need be purchased only if you have an interest in them without detracting from the game features. As previously explained by Iain each pack involves a huge amount of work to create

Also consider that Slitherine are running a server for Multiplayer which is free to use no matter how many games you want to play.

All in all I think we are getting a pretty good deal and my main concern is that Slitherine's pricing model ensures that the game and particularly multiplayer remains economically viable long term.

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Post by Examinondas » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:07 pm

I have decided not to buy SoA, because I'm not into European medieval armies and, with so many expansions (hopefully! :D) coming in the future, I prefer to save for the ones I'm really interested in, like Immortal Fire, Legions Triumphant and Decline and Fall. I'm also a bit concerned about the price increase in euros of SoA with respect to RoR (which in my opinion has not been adequately explained by Slitherine, although of course they can set whatever price they want :))

All that said, my better-half asked me this morning what I wanted for my birthday and... :roll:

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Post by Brigz » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:34 pm

I probably will buy SoA because I like the system so much I'd want to have the complete series, even though the era of SoA is not really interesting to me. But, this brings up an interesting question. Apparently, bug fixes and clarrifications will be made in the SoA expansion. Will those who do not purchase SoA be missing these fixes and clarrifications or will there be a seperate patch for those who decide not to purchase SoA?

I also noticed no info on scenarios for SoA. I'm assuming there will be a generous supply of scenarios with this expansion. Or will SoA be just an add-on for the DAG?

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Post by IainMcNeil » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:58 pm

There will be scenarios in SoA but not sure how many. Most improvements will be fitted to the core game so not SoA dependent. We are not forcing you to upgrade to keep playing the game - only buy what you want.

ScipioTerra
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Post by ScipioTerra » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:04 pm

Geordietaf wrote:If you go, for example, to the Matrix Website and look at games like War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition I think you will find there are many games a lot more expensive than FoG. Bear in mind also that the Army packs are optional and need be purchased only if you have an interest in them without detracting from the game features. As previously explained by Iain each pack involves a huge amount of work to create

Also consider that Slitherine are running a server for Multiplayer which is free to use no matter how many games you want to play.

All in all I think we are getting a pretty good deal and my main concern is that Slitherine's pricing model ensures that the game and particularly multiplayer remains economically viable long term.
Geordietaf,

Yes, the Matrix game you describe is expensive, but it is a finished product. The lowest price is 79.99 USD (59.3202 EUR) which is the download only version.

So far, Fog PC (the core game, RoR, and SoA) has cost me 69.97 USD (51.8677 EUR). So far, FoG PC is not more expensive than WiPAE. I admit that. But when FoG is expected to be finished, its estimated cost will be 289.86 USD (214.882 EUR)!!!! Now that my dear friend will be the most expensive computer game ever.

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Post by petergarnett » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:23 pm

As a TT veteran I guess I view the costs differently - I could never ever afford to buy & paint the miniatures needed to field all the armies in just the core FoG let alone the expansions. One TT army costs me about £60 all in.

I've also paid out monthly fees to play PC systems such as WoW or Hexwar games and per year it adds up.

For me it's down to how much quality gaming time I'm getting per £ & so far this system has been great value.

And who knows - when I use the latest voucher from slitherine it might be $50 this time & not 50 cents!

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Post by MesaDon » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:19 am

I agree that in the long run the cost really isn't that great when you include that you have the multiplayer added in for free. I did hexwar for three months and prefer FoG partially because I own the game and can play solo without a monthly fee, plus the ability to save and continue later on hotseat games(something hexwar doesn't have).

SRW1962
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Post by SRW1962 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:54 am

petergarnett wrote:As a TT veteran I guess I view the costs differently - I could never ever afford to buy & paint the miniatures needed to field all the armies in just the core FoG let alone the expansions. One TT army costs me about £60 all in.

I've also paid out monthly fees to play PC systems such as WoW or Hexwar games and per year it adds up.

For me it's down to how much quality gaming time I'm getting per £ & so far this system has been great value.

And who knows - when I use the latest voucher from slitherine it might be $50 this time & not 50 cents!
I would agree with you totally on this one.

I just spent over 60 quid on one 10mm army for Fog TT version, and then there are the opponents which are another 5 for the small period I am gaming, so thats at least 360 quid, maybe more like 500 quid by time I am finished. In 15mm this would be double and double again in 28mm so thats a total of 2,000 quid and even in 10mm its months of painting! So, with FOG PC I can eventually own ALL the FOG armies for the price of one 28mm army, pretty good value really. My 10mm Mid Republican Roman army has cost me so far something over 100 quid, thankfully my mate has the Carthaginians and Spanish and Celts. All in all I have spent over 50,000 pounds so far on armies for TT wargaming and spent years of my life painting them, so the price of this is insignificant by comparison and then the time of painting is taken up actually playing instead, which means FOG PC is a win/win for me. Oh then there is terrain..............

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Post by Morbio » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:05 pm

50,000 pounds? :shock:

Surely some mistake..... forgot the decimal point for the pennies?

SRW1962
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Post by SRW1962 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:17 pm

unfortunately the only mistake was buying all the figures, I used to have more, but sold many of them.

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Post by TheGrayMouser » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:56 pm

I am somewhat taken aback that people feel that the expansions are too expensive. $20.00 or so seems pretty reasonable and Slitherine has said multiple times that you won’t need each one to get new features etc.
I think it was on the Wargamer forum , but Ian in response to someone regarding the pricing indicated that FOG and ROR sales basically only enabled them to “break even” (apologise if I am misquoting)
I guess what I am getting at is what do people think is a reasonable price? Geez, last time I bought a 6 pack of socks at Kmart they tagged me for about $20, although I need socks, I’d much rather spend the money on a FOG expansion.

Btw SRW1962, how many figures does 50,000 pounds equal too?
I feel that you could likely play out a mega battle w 1-1 ration of figures/men actually on the battlefield!

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Post by Paisley » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:13 pm

I have no issue with the pricing, I think it's exceptionally good value.
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