Indo-Greek vs Galatian

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Jonah75
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Indo-Greek vs Galatian

Post by Jonah75 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Every time I meet Galatians with my Indo-Greeks I get battered - anyone got some tactical genius to share?

TheGrayMouser
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Post by TheGrayMouser » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:18 pm

Hmm, run away brave Sir robbin? :D

Those galatians are tough , i believe if you took a lot of Indians (bows) and got some good rugged hills to defend you could do pretty good vs them.... Out in the flats the pile of superior impact will bowl you over (plus they get decent cavalry as well)

Maybe those more famliar with Indo Greeks could give better advise though, I havent used them too much.

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Post by deadtorius » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:11 am

Terrain terrain and more terrain. That is the only advice I can give. Hope for a map full of stuff and then stay in there and shoot out at the Galatians, I think that is pretty much your only chance against them. Army full of superior impact foot is hard to beat, or choose a different army to take against them.

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Post by davouthojo » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:21 am

I've played Indo-Greek, and beaten the Galatians twice. And been beaten by the Indians playing Galatians!

A Deadtorious says, terrain helps alot - Galatians are weak in crowded vs Indo-Greek.

Two essential keys to victory:

1) Your 8 pikes. A solid line, with rear support and in command will mince a Galatian charge. On Impact, equal POA and in melee you will be +2 POA if undisrupted. Even Superiori vs Average won't help him

2) Your 16+ MF archers. As long as you stay away from the Galatian cavalry, his warriors can't touch you while you rain arrows down. Have the pikes or rough terrain as a refuge. Be patient - grinding down Superior troops will take 10+ turns

Hope this helps!

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Post by batesmotel » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:11 pm

davouthojo wrote:I've played Indo-Greek, and beaten the Galatians twice. And been beaten by the Indians playing Galatians!

A Deadtorious says, terrain helps alot - Galatians are weak in crowded vs Indo-Greek.

Two essential keys to victory:

1) Your 8 pikes. A solid line, with rear support and in command will mince a Galatian charge. On Impact, equal POA and in melee you will be +2 POA if undisrupted. Even Superiori vs Average won't help him

2) Your 16+ MF archers. As long as you stay away from the Galatian cavalry, his warriors can't touch you while you rain arrows down. Have the pikes or rough terrain as a refuge. Be patient - grinding down Superior troops will take 10+ turns

Hope this helps!
I haven't fought this battle but the Indo-Greeks should have numbers on their side. Something else to consider in addition to the pikes are the elephants which can be useful against either the Galatian foot or the mounted. Probably best used to supplement the pikes but can also be useful in some terrain or just to support archers that are in the open.

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Post by little » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:55 pm

I am playing the Galatians in the league (it was a brain jam, I meant to put down Sarmations and looked at what others had chosen and the name stuck when writing my choices!).

If it makes you feel any better it is probably one of the most boring armies to field (IMHO), little choice in the list and really needs nice open terrain. The infantry are slow and you have few lights and no MF to muck about with and little tactical options. However, having said that, one of the best ways to find out their limitations is to play them. Happy for you to set up a game with you as a Galatian and me as Indo - Greeks so you can get a better feel for them (just PW a game and send me a Private Message)

Cheers,

Gavin

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Post by magus007 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:57 am

There is a huge error in the game calculation that creates some strange results which Galatians are symptom.
Imagine this a line of Spartans... the best troops in the world charge galatians.... they are automatically disordered
Next the Galatians charge,,, the Spartans are automatically disordered and possibly fragmented.
The later situation would be acceptable if in following turns the Galatians were useless. They should be a good first turn weapon only. The problem is they are not. They will destroy twice the number of Spartans in two turns.

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Post by grumblefish » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:44 pm

magus007 wrote:There is a huge error in the game calculation that creates some strange results which Galatians are symptom.
Imagine this a line of Spartans... the best troops in the world charge galatians.... they are automatically disordered
Next the Galatians charge,,, the Spartans are automatically disordered and possibly fragmented.
The later situation would be acceptable if in following turns the Galatians were useless. They should be a good first turn weapon only. The problem is they are not. They will destroy twice the number of Spartans in two turns.
I read this and disagreed, so I ran a test. I set up a Galatian army consisting of a long line of superior impact swordsmen (just as the Galatian army list is; the troop image is listed under Dacians and only has light spears, so you need to edit it), and a long line of superior, armoured offensive spear spartans (just like the classical spartan list). I then placed a rear rank of MF heavy weapons behind the Dacian line, and a rear rank of average, armoured offensive spear behind the Spartan line. Each army had one general in the middle of the line; this is actually unrealistic for me, because I generally deploy all four generals as Sparta (one good general, 3 troops).

Breakpoint limit was 22 for galatians, 23 for spartans. I guess I miscounted or something. Anyway, final score was 14 break points for sparta, and 23 for galatians. The galatians had a varied degree of success on the flanks, where I unwisely charged and messed up the order of my line, but were utterly defeated in the centre.

Even if the galatians win on impact combat (which they often do), it's not a given that you'll be disrupted, especially if your troops are superior, have rear support, and are next to a general. Even if they do disrupt on impact, the next combat round is an even chance of win/loss. That is to say, Galatians must win on impact, successfully disrupt the unit, and then furthermore win at even combat next round (36% chance to cause cohesion test) and disrupt you, before they have a definite advantage. That ignores the chance for the unit to gain cohesion.

For the Spartans, I would advise getting into an orderly line with rear support, approaching the Galatians, and letting them hit your line so that you don't have to do impact without rear support. And yes, you will generally lose impact. I had a line about 16 or so long; 4 or 5 disrupts occurred during impact, and the Galatians suffered 1. Melee, however, was brutal for Galatians.

As long as you're using the Classical Sparta list, which has armour rather than protected units, you should win as long as you maintain order as you approach for the attack. Even if you initiate the charge, which means that some of your units will enter impact combat without rear support (maybe use your generals because they are going to do better and may win impact), you still may well win because disrupted melee armoured hoplites have a fair go against steady protected swordsmen.

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Post by magus007 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:29 pm

My experience was based on three games where I played the spartans and got the opposite results. Deep ranks ? Not sure that would work because the spartans would rout through them and make a mess

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Post by grumblefish » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:35 pm

magus007 wrote:My experience was based on three games where I played the spartans and got the opposite results. Deep ranks ? Not sure that would work because the spartans would rout through them and make a mess
If you line up your men a certain way, that should never happen. Basically, you want a solid front line, and then a chequered back line. When the front line routs, it will automatically go through the gaps. The only time when one unit will rout through another is when it has no other choice - keep in mind that it cannot rout through a hex immediately adjacent to an enemy unit.

The point of the deep ranks is to foster cohesion; I guess you could use helots or something. Also, when you used the Spartans, did you take the classical ones or the later ones? The later ones are only "protected," which means they will not do as well in melee (on the other hand, you can buy more).

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Post by dopffer » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:53 am

played twice with indo-greeks against galatians (macedonians): two disasters 100% losses vs 49% first time and 100% vs 19%!!! second game. Number didn't help me as almost each fight with my medium foot was lost due to galatians being "superior" quality and support didn't balance that.

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Post by grumblefish » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:08 pm

dopffer wrote:played twice with indo-greeks against galatians (macedonians): two disasters 100% losses vs 49% first time and 100% vs 19%!!! second game. Number didn't help me as almost each fight with my medium foot was lost due to galatians being "superior" quality and support didn't balance that.
Did you try putting the medium foot in rough terrain? Try picking a very dense map, I could see galatians have a horrid time of trying to get around a big forest while fighting mf.

All the same, I'm going to make some Indo-greek challenges later today and see if I can't attract a few Galatians. What point size is best do you reckon?

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Post by dopffer » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:20 pm

yes, I was wrong choosing open terrain, with 500pts.
heavy foot should have troubles vs medium in rough terrain...

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Post by grumblefish » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:21 pm

Okay, I put up two Indo-Greek games. Anybody who wants to test Galatian metal against Indo-Greek elephants please go right ahead.

The map is set to "mixed" and its at 500 points.

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Post by grumblefish » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:00 am

I got the challenges answered, one of them by a Galatian army... and it's not going well.

It's evident that the Galatians can't hold their own on the steep hills, and in the forest its pretty even, but the map was such that the bulk of our army had to meet in an open plain. Even when I should have won I was flattened; I attacked with a pikeman unit from uphill, and went from being told that I'd likely win, to being instantly fragmented and then routed on the next turn. That is pretty much the way the whole combat went, just terrible.

They're definitely beatable, though. If I went back in time, I'd just refuse to place any units in the open terrain, even if it means splitting my army up piecemeal.

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