My problems with the new edition.

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Cablenexus
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Cablenexus » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:50 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
FroBodine wrote:For me, the game has lost all it's charm. I'll be uninstalling it and playing the older versions. Thank you for the update, but no thanks.
I think we all have to give the new version a chance. It has only just come out and the feedback has only just started. For those of us who have been playing the game a long time (often around 5 years) I think we have to accept that the older game is passing now and a new one is in its earliest stages of development. It is very easy to cry "bug" when the reality is that the new version was never going to be exactly the same as the original game.

So we definitely need to have some patience and we can help the developers at Newrosoft and Slitherine by asking our questions and making our observations over the next few months so that any initial problems can be resolved quickly. Once we get beyond this "awkward period" the future for the game looks very promising indeed.
I want to ask support for the old version as long the new version is in development.
Playing with DAG and watching unit picture examples is the main reason for me that I bought the game. Not a "tiny" feature which is gone.
Missing terrain and unit picture examples and mouseover info on terrain and units ingame isn't a tiny feature missing, it's the main mechanism of the game missing for me as a new player to learn and enjoy the game.
The outdated manual and guides for the game aren't based on the new engine. Even the pictures in the manual are from the old version.
Textures cut in half and pixelated graphics when zoom in and or zoom out isn't something happening in the old version but only in the new version. None of my other 100 + games on my PC are affected and I use a new system, with newest drivers.
The old version have a very clean and informative user friendly UI with pictures, text based unitstats with expanation of numbers and letters. The new version lacks all this onfo.
The shadows, transparancy and antialiasing settings in this version are just not working. It looks like a mess.

I really want to support the new version and I look forward to a Steam release to recommend the game to my Steam friends and play with them in the future.

But, please can you the devs and the veterans of the series can take the complains seriously from new players? Instead of calling everything feature missing just a tiny feature nobody needs and to tell us that we have to stop "crying" bugs. Thank you.

I think this screen comparisson says more then thousands words:

https://goo.gl/photos/7b5vyoejHZacedhD8

alzado_77
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by alzado_77 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:55 pm

FroBodine wrote:This makes sense, and thank you for being the voice of reason. If Slitherine/Matrix would have said up front that this new version is in the early stages of development, than all would have been fine.

But, they didn't. They marketed it as a completely remade version with a bunch of enhancements and improvements. They did not mention that it was still in development, and there was some content still to be added, and that it was basically remade to cater to the mobile platform, with some features removed for an unknown reason because the developer didn't feel the need to add them yet.

That's what frustrates me.
I agree, and I actually enjoy the old version a lot! A few new landscape and unit additions would have done me just fine. I feel I have the right to keep playing the game I originally bought (in all its forms).

In what market would you buy say, a particular model TV and then have it forcibly replaced by another the manufacturer wanted to give you instead?

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by alzado_77 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:58 pm

Cablenexus wrote:
stockwellpete wrote:
FroBodine wrote:For me, the game has lost all it's charm. I'll be uninstalling it and playing the older versions. Thank you for the update, but no thanks.
I think we all have to give the new version a chance. It has only just come out and the feedback has only just started. For those of us who have been playing the game a long time (often around 5 years) I think we have to accept that the older game is passing now and a new one is in its earliest stages of development. It is very easy to cry "bug" when the reality is that the new version was never going to be exactly the same as the original game.

So we definitely need to have some patience and we can help the developers at Newrosoft and Slitherine by asking our questions and making our observations over the next few months so that any initial problems can be resolved quickly. Once we get beyond this "awkward period" the future for the game looks very promising indeed.
I want to ask support for the old version as long the new version is in development.
Playing with DAG and watching unit picture examples is the main reason for me that I bought the game. Not a "tiny" feature which is gone.
Missing terrain and unit picture examples and mouseover info on terrain and units ingame isn't a tiny feature missing, it's the main mechanism of the game missing for me as a new player to learn and enjoy the game.
The outdated manual and guides for the game aren't based on the new engine. Even the pictures in the manual are from the old version.
Textures cut in half and pixelated graphics when zoom in and or zoom out isn't something happening in the old version but only in the new version. None of my other 100 + games on my PC are affected and I use a new system, with newest drivers.
The old version have a very clean and informative user friendly UI with pictures, text based unitstats with expanation of numbers and letters. The new version lacks all this onfo.
The shadows, transparancy and antialiasing settings in this version are just not working. It looks like a mess.

I really want to support the new version and I look forward to a Steam release to recommend the game to my Steam friends and play with them in the future.

But, please can you the devs and the veterans of the series can take the complains seriously from new players? Instead of calling everything feature missing just a tiny feature nobody needs and to tell us that we have to stop "crying" bugs. Thank you.

I think this screen comparisson says more then thousands words:

https://goo.gl/photos/7b5vyoejHZacedhD8
I agree totally with this very grounded response. We have earned and paid for the right to continue the old version - particularly PBEM - I've been around for the better part of ten years on FoG!

stockwellpete
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:00 pm

Cablenexus wrote: I want to ask support for the old version as long the new version is in development.
Yes, I agree with this request.

alzado_77
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by alzado_77 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:02 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
alzado_77 wrote:
Tbh I think you're bending over too far backwards to be understanding Pete. This version has been a long time in development and it should be in 99% perfect working order - just like any other device or service you would buy. Why should we have to work through all the bugs with the devs over an indefinite future period? The fact that there already two new expansions, for which you have to pay, attached to an imperfect new engine only exacerbates the problem.

We paid over our money a long time ago (around £200 IIRC for all the expansions) and I for one would prefer to be able to continue playing the old version, for now at least.
Maybe Nick, but I think the money that I have spent on FOG has probably been the best money that i have ever spent on anything in my 60+ years. I don't know how many hours of entertainment I have had - certainly hundreds, maybe even a thousand or two! So I am inclined to be patient. For new players the sentiments may well be different and they will most likely expect a game in more or less full working order. If we think things are wrong then we should say so (I have done this myself today) but the overall trajectory of the game is upwards now. I did feel at one stage then the end of the road had arrived but not any more. I am sure many of the things being identified now will be quickly remedied.
We still have the right to play the game we (both) originally bought Pete. That is one thing that should not vanish until the new version is demonstrably an unmistakeable improvement.

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:04 pm

alzado_77 wrote:We still have the right to play the game we (both) originally bought Pete. That is one thing that should not vanish until the new version is demonstrably an unmistakeable improvement.
Yes, I agree. I hope Slitherine will agree too. :wink:

Cablenexus
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Cablenexus » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:08 pm

And before I forget I absolutely want to speak out my support for the guy who bring this gem to a new era. It's really meant to be constructive as possible and in no way I give up on the game till it's a new gem.
I really understand writing a 8 years old game from scratch in a modern engine isn't something to take lightly. All my respect for this. I support by buying the new DLC.

Slitherine makes very deep and intelligent strategy games. The new Warhammer Orks is almost bugfree even in beta, all units have mouseovers, right click menus, the graphics are smooth and everything is clear for new players when start. Isn't there someone in the house who can help polishing this game?

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Towerbooks3192 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:12 pm

Cablenexus wrote:
stockwellpete wrote:
FroBodine wrote:For me, the game has lost all it's charm. I'll be uninstalling it and playing the older versions. Thank you for the update, but no thanks.
I think we all have to give the new version a chance. It has only just come out and the feedback has only just started. For those of us who have been playing the game a long time (often around 5 years) I think we have to accept that the older game is passing now and a new one is in its earliest stages of development. It is very easy to cry "bug" when the reality is that the new version was never going to be exactly the same as the original game.

So we definitely need to have some patience and we can help the developers at Newrosoft and Slitherine by asking our questions and making our observations over the next few months so that any initial problems can be resolved quickly. Once we get beyond this "awkward period" the future for the game looks very promising indeed.
I want to ask support for the old version as long the new version is in development.
Playing with DAG and watching unit picture examples is the main reason for me that I bought the game. Not a "tiny" feature which is gone.
Missing terrain and unit picture examples and mouseover info on terrain and units ingame isn't a tiny feature missing, it's the main mechanism of the game missing for me as a new player to learn and enjoy the game.
The outdated manual and guides for the game aren't based on the new engine. Even the pictures in the manual are from the old version.
Textures cut in half and pixelated graphics when zoom in and or zoom out isn't something happening in the old version but only in the new version. None of my other 100 + games on my PC are affected and I use a new system, with newest drivers.
The old version have a very clean and informative user friendly UI with pictures, text based unitstats with expanation of numbers and letters. The new version lacks all this onfo.
The shadows, transparancy and antialiasing settings in this version are just not working. It looks like a mess.

I really want to support the new version and I look forward to a Steam release to recommend the game to my Steam friends and play with them in the future.

But, please can you the devs and the veterans of the series can take the complains seriously from new players? Instead of calling everything feature missing just a tiny feature nobody needs and to tell us that we have to stop "crying" bugs. Thank you.

I think this screen comparisson says more then thousands words:

https://goo.gl/photos/7b5vyoejHZacedhD8
I'm pretty much new to the party and was brought here because of Pike and Shot and Sengoku Jidai and I had a few hours with old version base game. As a newcomer I do agree that by removing a lot of information, they are only making it harder for the new players. I actually sunk a lot of money ($150 AUD for the expansion and $29 for the base game) recently because I actually liked the gameplay and what few hours I spent in the old version and I must say that I am disappointed with the new version because of the missing features as you have stated. Also the other thing that disappoints me is the lack of documentation (the actual books for the expansion!) or even some in-game library that gives us a bit of historical info or something and maybe a close-up photo of the miniatures. It feels so empty not seeing the photos of the miniatures on the DAG creation screen because I don't have a clue what the BGs look like until the battle field. I am going to understand that if the game did not stick to its tabletop roots and replaced all with different graphics therefore we really need a closer look in order to see the miniatures and admire them. I really hope that the developers will sort any problems out and fix the game. I wouldn't think twice of dropping more money on expansions if we can get a pretty solid base game like the old version. All I can say is that the devs should learn from Pike and Shot and Sengoku Jidai in terms of how to present information and make a solid package.

Edit: In relation to the screeny comparison. As a beginner I would say that the old version actually presents everything neatly and makes more sense compared to the new version. In my opinion, I don't really see the point of simplifying the game further since under the hood all of the mechanics will be the same and the only way through it is making documentation information more accessible to beginners rather than making the game appear more convoluted that before.

anguille
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by anguille » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:29 pm

I've been trying the new edition right now and also have to say that i prefer the old edition, sorry.

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Ulysisgrunt » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:35 pm

I am not a newbie' I have been playing the original FOG since its release:
1)Why can I not make 'march moves' within the command radius of my generals?
2)What does the letter 'P' mean on a unit?
3)Are there break-off moves?
4) Why is the army generator so poorly laid out?
5) The awful quality of the 'bibliography' is an indication of the jejeune nature of the rules. Would any academic accept this as a a serious bibliography?

This is an abomination.......
What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Ulysisgrunt
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Ulysisgrunt » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:35 pm

sorry for duplicate post
Last edited by Ulysisgrunt on Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

rich12545
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by rich12545 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:56 pm

.

anguille
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by anguille » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:59 pm

rich12545 wrote:I recall a few years ago they were saying the initial release would be the same as the old game but with a better engine. And it's free. I have a personal rule. I don't complain about free stuff. Making suggestions is fine and I'll probably have some as I start playing but I'll have no complaints.
Of course, we shouldn't complaining about something that is free. The problem however, is that the release of the new game makes them stop the support (pbem) for the old game...it's not like if they said they would allow both editions to be played. The old version cannot be bought anymore.

alzado_77
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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by alzado_77 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:02 pm

anguille wrote:
rich12545 wrote:I recall a few years ago they were saying the initial release would be the same as the old game but with a better engine. And it's free. I have a personal rule. I don't complain about free stuff. Making suggestions is fine and I'll probably have some as I start playing but I'll have no complaints.
Of course, we shouldn't complaining about something that is free. The problem however, is that the release of the new game makes them stop the support (pbem) for the old game...it's not like if they said they would allow both editions to be played. The old version cannot be bought anymore.
Eaxctly, if the old game isn't supported any more, then we have lost something we all liked, even loved. That's a rather stealthy version of freedom :)

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by TDefender » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:31 pm

-No terrain info
-kills number over the units too trasparent
-no unit imagine view on the bottom panel (ok just aesthetic, but why?)
-can't place fences or change skirmish mode (probably my fault)
-crappy graphics even on "fantastic" setting
-uncomfortable expandable option panel (I really don't get the reason of this change)

Obviously still a great game, but at the moment I 'm turning back to 1.81 version. :|

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Towerbooks3192 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:53 pm

I managed to find a way to play the old version and it breaks my heart to say that everything was better in the old version but here are some things I kinda like from the new one:
- Auto compulsory attack of the units and no prompts of X unit must attack before you can carry on with ending your turn.
-Vikings and contents from the 2 new expansions (Please take my money for lost scrolls!!!)
- DAG battle choice of totally random from all books and not just random from X book.
- I can play on my sister's macbook air (I can take field of glory with me around the house instead of being stuck on my PC.

It kinda breaks my heart seeing that the difference between versions is night and day and with the figure display missing on the screen and the DAG generator kinda sucks. I am actually worried that new players would be turned off more by the newer UI because instead of the game looking like a pretty solid PC game it looks like a cheap mobile game.

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:22 pm

The development team for FoG unfortunately left 4 years ago when Newrosoft took over and wrote the game from scratch. There is no support for the old version and hasn't been for 4 years. The only way FoG in its current form can continue is with Newrosoft. The version has been there for some time for feedback but we didn't hear much from the players. I know Dan is committed to improving the game so give him your feedback and he'll do what he can.

If you prefer to pay the old version you can. It still runs but you cannot use the expansions in it. This update is for free and you don't need to use it - its completely your choice.

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:26 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:The development team for FoG unfortunately left 4 years ago when Newrosoft took over and wrote the game from scratch. There is no support for the old version and hasn't been for 4 years. The only way FoG in its current form can continue is with Newrosoft. The version has been there for some time for feedback but we didn't hear much from the players. I know Dan is committed to improving the game so give him your feedback and he'll do what he can.

If you prefer to pay the old version you can. It still runs but you cannot use the expansions in it. This update is for free and you don't need to use it - its completely your choice.
Iain, will you give consideration to letting the PBEM server continue for the old version for a while yet so that players can still play the old game while helping Dan to improve the new version?

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by Cablenexus » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:04 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:The development team for FoG unfortunately left 4 years ago when Newrosoft took over and wrote the game from scratch. There is no support for the old version and hasn't been for 4 years. The only way FoG in its current form can continue is with Newrosoft. The version has been there for some time for feedback but we didn't hear much from the players. I know Dan is committed to improving the game so give him your feedback and he'll do what he can.

If you prefer to pay the old version you can. It still runs but you cannot use the expansions in it. This update is for free and you don't need to use it - its completely your choice.
The specific support I ask for is to keep the files for the old FOG on your servers so we are able to download it when we change system or need to download again for any other reason.

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Re: My problems with the new edition.

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:32 pm

I played a solo scenario game this evening and the following issues occurred . . .

i) routed units kept disappearing when there were other hexes to rout into (often when fighting against two adjacent enemy units)
ii) routed units kept going through friendly units and disrupting them even though there were other empty hexes to move into
iii) routed units are often shown as "ordered". This seems odd.
iv) one routed unit had "R", "D" and "R with a circle round it". What does the last symbol mean?
v) lots of units are either "disordered" or "disrupted" and some are in both states, but the "D" symbol looks exactly the same
vi) I had 5 or 6 "pinball moments" when routed troops shot off and caused further disruption and/or chain routs

The sliders did work inasmuch as they did slow down the combats so that I could follow them but overall there are quite a few issues that need attention in my view.

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