MRR vs Carthage

Battle Reports & After Action Reports (AAR's)

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deeter
Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
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Post by deeter » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:38 pm

Since the game is over, I'm taking a look at the AAR and thought it might be helpful to add some comments.

The Punic Italian army is the best Carthage can field. The African Veteran spears are really strong if handled well. Unfortunately, you only get nine of them. Taking the Campanian armored HF/IF and mixing them in with the spears creates a longer line with the option to attack with the IF or the spears depending on the situation. The spears must retain good order at impact or they are toast. If they do, Roman HF bounce off them. Add in the usual mass of cavalry and the ability to make all the foot drilled and this is a tough and versatile army.

When out numbered, I tend to favor an echelon attack supported by my good slingers, the elephant and most of the cavalry. In this game, I was surprised that massena chose average legionnaires -- something that seldom happens. So much the better! However, I did not count noses and didn't realize how many Pergamine allies he bought. I deployed to attack his open left, but instead decided to attack his right in order to kill of his allies. Bad idea as you shall see.

I foolishly lost my Spanish LH trying to shoot up his elephant. At 44% odds, I should have killed a bunch of them, but my shooting wasn't very good and I allowed them to get pocketed and killed. More later.

Deeter

massina_nz
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
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Turn 7

Post by massina_nz » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:58 pm

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Activity on my left –flank , one of my MFs disrupts due to impact foot Scutari, one Liby-Poeni HC takes heavy loses but doesn’t disrupt – I’m surprised deeter charged them in, surely the odds would have been poor as my MF was in a forest hex.

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Main battle lines clash – pretty even results – will his heavier armour be the telling factor? My Principes are armoured but my Hastati are only protected. The disrupted Veteran African Spearmen are the weak points as they only negate my swordsmen POA when they are in a steady state.

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Routing Punic troops (fragmented last turn) help me get the better of the results here. In addition all my of my frontline units are IF they are able to get a POA against the Spearmen and disrupt them, which will help in my melee combats in my turn. The Punic cavalry commits as well.

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I trap the two Spanish light cavalry on my right, by cutting off their evade moves, these are such easy points. The Triari also charges in and disrupts the Spanish heavy cav.

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The Spanish light infantry are forced to fight – they are now outnumbered 2-1, best sequence is to charge in with one Velite first, then fight with the one already in melee combat as they get the bonus from having support troops

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One of my MF charges in at good odds but disrupts, at least it traps the Liby-Poeni HC in wooded terrain [A]. My disrupted MF routs despite putting a unit behind it to help with the cohesion test .

My lancers charge in and win their combats versus the Gallic cavalry but fail to disrupt, but do reduce it below 75%, and it is locked into combat, as it only contacted mounted units and can’t break off. I took the risk of the Gallic MF having a good attack next turn against my CinC. It just has to survive the attack so it can break off in my opponents turn [C].

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I get some good (as expected results) and rout one Spearmen unit and fragment the Campanian infantry. The two African Spearmen units on my extreme left are both disordered and should allow me to easily roll-up this flank.

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I get some good combinations, fragmenting a Spearmen unit and a Spanish cavalry unit (impact combat disrupts followed by a melee combat fragment). One of my units does fragment tho’ and my line looks weak at [A] – one of my charges in turns a disrupt into fragment and the following melee combat routs the opposing unit . Remember only one cohesion step loss for each type of combat per turn unless the unit loses really badly.

massina_nz
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
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Turn 8

Post by massina_nz » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:07 am

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The Gallic cavalry finally disrupts against my lancers [A]. My MF are very fragile especially against the IF Scutari as they are disrupted in the impact melee . They are also disrupted at [C], which will lock the Carthaginian leader there. And my disrupted MF at [D] is routed. Things don’t look overly promising here, despite my troops being in favourable terrain.

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At my weakest point, three units in my middle rout – helps when you are the attacker to get the optimum sequence of the attacks. The BP score is now very even.

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The light troops and Veteran African Spearmen, hold out…. Just. Although a couple of other Punic units rout near the middle

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Damn hadn’t closed the gap on the fragmented cavalry properly, so I send a LF off to shoot at it and hope it routs it - cohesion tests will be at a -2 from any shooting as it is already fragmented.

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And on their left my line holds – it seems pretty even – except the BP score is now well in my favour.
Last edited by massina_nz on Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

massina_nz
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Turn 9

Post by massina_nz » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:02 am

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This turn my Thureupoi are able to get the better of the melee results, and are able to stand their ground.

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The Punic right disintegrates

In my turn the Triari attacks the fragment which routs and fragments the unit next to it. The Hastati [A] then has a free attack on that units rear which automatically routs it. The Triari wouldn’t advance because they were locked– that way my disrupted unit, my weakest didn’t have to fight – one key is to ensure your disrupted or fragmented units fight with the best odds, sometimes that means they fight first against a weaker unit, because it if routs they may have to fight another stronger enemy unit adjacent to it.

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I get lucky as some of my fragments actually hold.

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But not in my turn as three units rout, I force my CinC to stand so the Enemy can’t get behind me – The inspired Carthaginian commander is doing a great job in rallying troops.

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Mixed results on my left, the Scutari are made to lose again, the Gallic cavalry routs, which fragments the Gallic MF and disrupts the Libyan LF, my MF charge the LF and get disrupted – those random results always keep you on your toes.

massina_nz
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
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Turn 10 - the final turn

Post by massina_nz » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:16 am

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On the left deeter throws his cavalry in, but I’m able to rout it and a couple of other units as well. Those lancers were worth it IMHO

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Most of the Carthaginian main battle line domino routs and it’s a clear victory for the Senate, ah…I mean the people of Rome!

For my next AAR I think I'll report on my next Companions Cup match, the first one was a great deal of fun. I hope I get to command those winsome Gauls again.

Morbio
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Post by Morbio » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:38 pm

A great AAR and interesting to see your perpective on the battle. I'm still surprised that Carthage lost the battle considering the units on both sides, I think the key factor here was your threat via your MF and Lancers to the Carthaginian right flank and how it was dealt with. Also the way the Carthage line became disorganised, as opposed to the nice line the Romans maintained, became a factor too.

Given the initial setup then I don't think Deeter had many choices of how to deal with the flanking threat, but the mistake (IMO) was to send the cavalry into the woods. This not only gave Carthage some heavy losses, but also removed the cavalry threat to the flank and rear of the Roman line. I think I would have sent some MF supported by a smaller number of cavalry (including commander) and some LF and held the line at the lakes. The Roman Spears would then have had to go the long way round the lakes or force a way through the narrow pass. In the meantime the skirmishers would attrit the Spears and the Cavalry would have been much more effective in open ground. Carthage may or may not have won this battle, but the important thing would be the time it would keep the Roman Spears from rear of the Carthaginian line. In the meantime the other part of the cavalry (which would outnumber the Roman equivalents), with LH, Elephant and LF support would try to break round the Roman right flank and ithat would be disastrous for Rome. In order to maximise the chances of this happening before the lines met I would have held ground to force Rome to come to me.

deeter
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Post by deeter » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:22 pm

Carthago delenda

In retrospect, I should have stuck to by original battle plan of making an echelon attack on the Roman right to pin while the cavalry swept around the open flank. However, I got a little over confidant seeing the average Legions confronting me and failed to count noses. I figured the allies were little more than two lancers and two MF and decided to fall on them first while they were isolated.

I intended to counter the lancers with my own MF in the swamps, which they could have done better. Discovering the extra MF and LH was an unpleasant surprise. I was also unlucky with the infantry battle where some of my spears lost cohesion at impact. But mainly, it was just poor performance n my part that cost me the battle. Had Hannibal been there, I'm sure he would have done much better. As good as this Punic army is, it needs some inspired generalship to win.

Deeter
"Carne deum -- Seize the meat."

massina_nz
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
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Re: Eye Candy interlude

Post by massina_nz » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:44 pm

batesmotel wrote:
massina_nz wrote:Just though I'd post some pictures of a MRR DBA army I painted last year - I think it's in theme :)

Hope I haven't broken any rules in posting pics of non-Essex miniatures on the site....although I do have a lot of Essex miniatures

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Very nice looking figures although you need to practice taking picture of them some more since some are a bit out of focus. Are the shields decals/transers or painted?

Essex has no offiicial ties with Slitherine as far as I know. Certainly many manufacturers' figures are in pictures posted in the TT forums.
Okay, with a better camera, better lighting, better background and some basic photo editing, plus readign various "how to photograph minaitures" I've come up with some way better images

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The DBA Polybian Army in full glory

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The Princepes in the second line

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The Triarii

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Latin and Roman cavalry

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Additional Roman Spearmen to play the pre 275BC Camillain Roman army list.

massina_nz
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1133
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:12 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: MRR vs Carthage

Post by massina_nz » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:22 am

Here's the same army in 6mm

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The first metal figurines I collected, back in the late 1970's. These have been painted several times.

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The Roman and Latin cavalry, I've used Campanian cavalry figures for the Latin cavalry.

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Some early era Veles that would repalce the later era Velites. These figures were recently sourced from Baccus rather than from Heroics and Ros.

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Velites with wolfskin headress

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The Triarii. I've painted the Triarii, Hastati and Principes in the same colour scheme.

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Hastati and Principes on the same bases.

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