orb formation
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orb formation
Hi ,
Can a BG with 2 bases (triarii for example) be in "ORB formation" ? Is there a minimum of bases to form ORB ?
Thanks
Can a BG with 2 bases (triarii for example) be in "ORB formation" ? Is there a minimum of bases to form ORB ?
Thanks
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- Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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The rules don't give a specific limit - however they use the phrase "It is depicted by contracting the battle group to 2 files wide, and turning at least half the battle group's ranks to face the rear."
The implication of this is that it must start 3 or 4 files wide, and have at least 2 ranks when 2 wide - otherwise you would depict it by turning the entire BG round.
So I would say you need a minimum of 3 base.
The implication of this is that it must start 3 or 4 files wide, and have at least 2 ranks when 2 wide - otherwise you would depict it by turning the entire BG round.
So I would say you need a minimum of 3 base.
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- Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
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1 base faces forwards and one backwards.
Indeed when in the zone of enemy and more than 2 bases wide it may not form orb as it is not allowed to contract.
I think this was a case of the rules writers not using 50 words when 10 would do. Turn 1 Base of a 2 base BG backwards and its in orb in my opinion. if it passes cmt to do so
Indeed when in the zone of enemy and more than 2 bases wide it may not form orb as it is not allowed to contract.
I think this was a case of the rules writers not using 50 words when 10 would do. Turn 1 Base of a 2 base BG backwards and its in orb in my opinion. if it passes cmt to do so
I don't have the rules on hand, but wouldn't it be pointless having a BG of 2 bases in orb? Don't you count only 1/4 of the bases fighting in all directions, in other words 1/2 a base if only 2 bases, and thus get no dice? I suppose it would round up to 1 dice!philqw78 wrote:1 base faces forwards and one backwards.
Indeed when in the zone of enemy and more than 2 bases wide it may not form orb as it is not allowed to contract.
I think this was a case of the rules writers not using 50 words when 10 would do. Turn 1 Base of a 2 base BG backwards and its in orb in my opinion. if it passes cmt to do so
Viking (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
Syracusan (15mm)
Palmyran (10mm - 15mm basing)
Horse Nomad (15mm)
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- Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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And also that if it is more than 4 wide, or less that 3 wide, it can't form orb at all.philqw78 wrote:1 base faces forwards and one backwards.
Indeed when in the zone of enemy and more than 2 bases wide it may not form orb as it is not allowed to contract.
Except the rules say it is depicted by contracting to two bases wide, and at least half the ranks are turned to face the rear.I think this was a case of the rules writers not using 50 words when 10 would do. Turn 1 Base of a 2 base BG backwards and its in orb in my opinion. if it passes cmt to do so
It doesn't say "by being 2 bases wide", or even as you appear to be assuming "by being no more than 2 bases wide"[/b]
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- Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
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Why can it not when more than 4 wide? It is forming orb as a CMT not Contracting.sagji wrote:And also that if it is more than 4 wide, or less that 3 wide, it can't form orb at all.
So you are saying the intention was that a 2 base wide 4 deep BG cannot form orb as it does not contract?sagi wrote:Except the rules say it is depicted by contracting to two bases wide, and at least half the ranks are turned to face the rear.
It doesn't say "by being 2 bases wide", or even as you appear to be assuming "by being no more than 2 bases wide"[/b]
I think we may need an erratta here.
IMO a formation that is already 2 wide can form orb and a wider formation can reduce to 2 wide and form orb.
A BG of 2 bases cannot form Orb as an orb is by definition 2 wide.
I can see the argument that a BG that starts 2 wide cannot form orb because of the use of contract in the description but IMO that is a DBMM level of literalism and it is just plain silly to say that a BG that starts 2 wide cannot go into orb.
A BG of 2 bases cannot form Orb as an orb is by definition 2 wide.
I can see the argument that a BG that starts 2 wide cannot form orb because of the use of contract in the description but IMO that is a DBMM level of literalism and it is just plain silly to say that a BG that starts 2 wide cannot go into orb.
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- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
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Also, the image on p122 of the rule book shows a 2-wide BG forming orb.hammy wrote:IMO a formation that is already 2 wide can form orb and a wider formation can reduce to 2 wide and form orb.
A BG of 2 bases cannot form Orb as an orb is by definition 2 wide.
I can see the argument that a BG that starts 2 wide cannot form orb because of the use of contract in the description but IMO that is a DBMM level of literalism and it is just plain silly to say that a BG that starts 2 wide cannot go into orb.
So, a BG whith less than 4 bases can't form ORB , because he can't be in two wide formation, but why a BG of 6 bases in column can't expand in two wide to form ORB ? Or turn to form an ORB ? THe contraction is only necessary when the BGH is more than 2 wides ....
And what happen if a BG whith 4 bases loose one base ? How do you reform the BG ?
And what happen if a BG whith 4 bases loose one base ? How do you reform the BG ?
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- Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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Because the rules explicitly say "A BG can only form ORB if it starts no more than 4 files wide." (p122 end of left column)philqw78 wrote:Why can it not when more than 4 wide? It is forming orb as a CMT not Contracting.sagji wrote:And also that if it is more than 4 wide, or less that 3 wide, it can't form orb at all.
I can't say what the intention was, but the wording used says that can't.So you are saying the intention was that a 2 base wide 4 deep BG cannot form orb as it does not contract?sagi wrote:Except the rules say it is depicted by contracting to two bases wide, and at least half the ranks are turned to face the rear.
It doesn't say "by being 2 bases wide", or even as you appear to be assuming "by being no more than 2 bases wide"[/b]
I think we may need an erratta here.
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- Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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Yes - you turn at least 1/2 the ranks not at least 1/2 the bases.philqw78 wrote:But a BG with 2 bases can be 2 wide. 1 base faces forwards, 1 backwards. Nothing wrong with that is there?hammy wrote:IMO a formation that is already 2 wide can form orb and a wider formation can reduce to 2 wide and form orb.
A BG of 2 bases cannot form Orb as an orb is by definition 2 wide.
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- Corporal - Strongpoint
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Fine. You have one rank, so you turn it; 1 is at least half of 1. It fights with 1/2 rounded up to 1 base in any direction.sagji wrote:Yes - you turn at least 1/2 the ranks not at least 1/2 the bases.philqw78 wrote:But a BG with 2 bases can be 2 wide. 1 base faces forwards, 1 backwards. Nothing wrong with that is there?hammy wrote:A BG of 2 bases cannot form Orb as an orb is by definition 2 wide.
Best wishes,
Matthew
All very interesting .... but suggest you all simply read the orb bit in the FAQ/ already on this forum.
You can't contract in an RA so need to be 2 base width already to do it, reflecting complexity thereof when near to enemy.
Outside an RA you can do it from 4 bases wide.
Si
Indeed you have to contract to 2 bases to form orb.Can Orb be formed in a restricted area?
Yes and no. You cannot contract in a restricted area, but you can turn. When forming Orb you contract to 2 wide if not already 2 wide. So you can form Orb in a restricted area if you are already 2 wide and do not need to contract. You cannot form Orb if wider.
Rationale: If you are already in the right formation all you are doing is turning spear points outwards, but to engage in a big contraction just in front of the enemy would be rather dangerous.
You can't contract in an RA so need to be 2 base width already to do it, reflecting complexity thereof when near to enemy.
Outside an RA you can do it from 4 bases wide.
Si
Simon Hall
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"
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