Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:02 pm

I have not played a single game to 1945 for several years. That is because I play beta versions and we play to evaluate the balance and look for bugs. Quite often changes are needed and the data collection becomes invalidated. Then we halt the game and start a new one. So people playing against me will rarely see the game to the end.

I haven't won a game in years. I haven't lost either. That is the good side. :)

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Crazygunner1 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:36 am

I understand, but don´t you feel the urge to finnish the games despite upgrades? Or are you only collecting data?

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Morris » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:33 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:Yeah...Joerock is really tough and a good player. Also fun to play against :)
Borger i started a game a long time ago but never got to finish it. In the short game we had it was clear that Borger plays the game well planned and almost perfectly executed. Would actually be fun to have another match :)

Also think Supermax quallifies into that "elite" category.
Supermax is certainly one of the elites ! A great agressive player who can create new strategy ! My lists are the elites whom I never have a chance to have a victory against him.

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Morris » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:35 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:I understand, but don´t you feel the urge to finnish the games despite upgrades? Or are you only collecting data?
I have same question . Why don't you invest some time to enjoy the game ? It is really a great game !

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Finland1944 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:56 pm

If Stauffenberg wants to fulfill the hopes the other elite players, and would play some of his games til the end, I have two suggestions:

-Start in 1941 or later

-Choose options that strongly favor Allies, so the game will end in 1944. Maybe mirror game is good for that? Possible options:

--Axis DOW USSR in 1940 (Stalin betrays Hitler)
--US joins earlier
--Barbarossa in April 1941 > no DOW morale loss for Soviets
--Axis DOW Turkey before or after Barbarossa

-Or maybe game is over, when Axis have London, Baghdad, Moscow and Omsk? How fast depends on the settings that favor Axis. For example, Allies DOW Italy in 1939, and Turkey in 1941. That would speed up the game a lot.

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Finland1944 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:00 pm

TURN 40, Oct 20, 1941

For this turn I've got only after turn pics.


MEDITERRANEAN

After

Sicily is now full of troops, and he's ready to take Sardinia. FGTs look impressive, but they have no function here what so ever.

Image


RUSSIA, NORTH


After

I've a potentially weak point in front of the SS Pz. Smolensk front is occupied by non-Germans. Finnish fgt is going to give good support during winter.

Finally I could take Novgorod now, but veterans of Leningrad are needed in Ukraine.

Image


RUSSIA, SOUTH


After

I've concentrated my air power west of Kiev, and the intention is to first defend Desna river, with an option to retreat.

I've got altogether 7 tags, 1 str and only 2 fgts. Soviet have high dogfight tech, which was a nasty surprise. It must have been a priority for Morris.

Dnerpr front includes 3 SW-prone units. The situation is not a disaster, but not very promising, either. Only 2 German corps! Only extra 100 pps would give 3 more.

Image


CASUALTIES

After

Image

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:24 am

In the south i think you should do what i suggested earlier. Pull back gradually and use the zone of control rule to refuse the russian making contact with your frontline troops. Also use the luftwaffe to attack their tanks and perhaps mechs to slow their advance. In order to make a stand here you would need a lot more infantry to cover the line and also shock troops behind in order to counter attack any breakthrough attempts.

What is your fighter tech compare to the russians? Maybe it´s worth keeping the luftwaffe in the air during winter?
I only count 5 tanks, how many you got?

Crazyg

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Morris » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:44 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:What is your fighter tech compare to the russians? Maybe it´s worth keeping the luftwaffe in the air during winter?
I only count 5 tanks, how many you got?

Crazyg
I don't think Luftwaffe should stay in Russian front in this pbem. Luftwaffe's dog fight is only 3& Russian 's dog fight is 5 . on the other hand ,Axis seems need more pp to build more units since they will lose many(mainly minor units)in severe winter .

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Crazygunner1 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:30 am

Wow, thats tough...to loose air superiority against the russians in 41 already. That pretty much nails the coffin shut i supose :?

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Vokt » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:09 pm

Morris wrote:
Crazygunner1 wrote:What is your fighter tech compare to the russians? Maybe it´s worth keeping the luftwaffe in the air during winter?
I only count 5 tanks, how many you got?

Crazyg
I don't think Luftwaffe should stay in Russian front in this pbem. Luftwaffe's dog fight is only 3& Russian 's dog fight is 5 . on the other hand ,Axis seems need more pp to build more units since they will lose many(mainly minor units)in severe winter .
This is weird since soviet fighter graphics do not correspond with the dog fight level 5 ones.

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Finland1944 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:53 pm

Reply to the previous messages:

Crazyg
> Pull back gradually and use the zone of control rule to refuse the russian making contact with your frontline troops.

So does the procedure go? Let's take a corps chasing a corps. It there is one hex between, they'll run equally fast. But it they are adjacent, and one tries to flee, will the other catch it, is it left one hex behind because of zoc penalty to enter the adjacent hex? Sorry, this must be basic stuff, but I've neved used zoc in a systematic way for pull back.

++++

I'll try to check the dog fight levels from an old before turn -file. I can't remember the exact time, but I remember how, I was surprised, because I've lost my tech advance much too early (5 vs 5). And during winter Germans go from 5 to 3, aren't they?

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Morris » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:22 pm

Vokt wrote:
Morris wrote:
Crazygunner1 wrote:What is your fighter tech compare to the russians? Maybe it´s worth keeping the luftwaffe in the air during winter?
I only count 5 tanks, how many you got?

Crazyg
I don't think Luftwaffe should stay in Russian front in this pbem. Luftwaffe's dog fight is only 3& Russian 's dog fight is 5 . on the other hand ,Axis seems need more pp to build more units since they will lose many(mainly minor units)in severe winter .
This is weird since soviet fighter graphics do not correspond with the dog fight level 5 ones.
It just dogfight 5. It is not dogfight lvl 5. In Russian dogfight lvl 5,their dogfight should be 8.
sorry for my poor English! Am I clear?

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Finland1944 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:38 pm

TURN 41, Nov 9, 1941

Also for this turn I've got only after turn pics.

First about labs.

My choice for Italians was to build only Inf, naval and general. Any comment? Generally I have a feeling that I don't know how to play Italy. That's one component of my dislike about playing Axis. I prefer knowing what to do.

Image

German have started to upgrade inf and tank destroyers, and waiting for

Image


MEDITERRANEAN

After

He is about to establish his airbase for next landing operation. For some time, nothing will happen. I should have sent mech both fgts and to east.

Image

RUSSIA, NORTH

After

Green dots for Italians (SW is near)

Image


RUSSIA, SOUTH


After

On the next turn he can reach my defense line. Now it's time to start counting how casualties will explode.

I spent a lot to non-German repairs, now it's -30 pps.

Green dots for Italians and Hungarians.

Let's remember that we have free oil in this game. My idea was to give Axis chance to use Luftwaffe in defensive years. My mistake was that I scattered my LW here and there. I should have kept my fgt fleet concentrated in one place. I built too many tacs when I was worried about my slow advance in France. I should have built more fgts instead. Now my Barbarossa was too powerful. I was hitting hard, but he was able to avoid my strength.

Image


CASUALTIES

After

Image

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Vokt » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:10 pm

Morris wrote:
Vokt wrote:
Morris wrote: I don't think Luftwaffe should stay in Russian front in this pbem. Luftwaffe's dog fight is only 3& Russian 's dog fight is 5 . on the other hand ,Axis seems need more pp to build more units since they will lose many(mainly minor units)in severe winter .
This is weird since soviet fighter graphics do not correspond with the dog fight level 5 ones.
It just dogfight 5. It is not dogfight lvl 5. In Russian dogfight lvl 5,their dogfight should be 8.
sorry for my poor English! Am I clear?
I think that you referred to air combat values. Now I get it.

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Morris » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:54 am

actually ,Axis should remember one principle that if you have no airsuperior , you can't launch your stukas for a suiside attack .If you replace the pp for 2 tacs into 3mechs & one corp , it will be different situation . But if you want a very aggresive Barbarosa , 5 tacs are necessary . this is always a dillema for Axis player . :)

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Finland1944 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:42 pm

As axis I feel that later in the game my tacs are useless, because for using them I need fgts too, and can't afford to repair all these. Usually you don't have fuel, so by suggesting this no fuel -variation I fooled myself to believe that I can afford to build more than I can afford to maintain. :-( The mistake happened in France and in battle of Greece. But I managed to trap and destroy one BB and CV of Morris. Something to tell to eventual grandchildren. :wink:

So "no fuel" made me focus on wrong things. This is a lesson to be learned for those who want to experiment with historical variants.

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Morris » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:33 am

Turn 42

Nov 29th 1942 severe winter



Finally ,this AAR will be back to Allies part . & Pekka will comment & also provide Axis opinion if he believes it is necessary .


Severe winter ! Although we have a houserule that Sibearn troops will not attend war before 1942 , we still decide to process winter offence . Stalin ordered all red army launch attack to liberate their motherland no matter they are ready or not . Indeed the severe winter did hurt Axis ! Russians made a good break through in the south front ! In north front ,red army stick with Germans sothat they won't be able to retreat or transfer to safe place . We just want Germans bleeding !


In Med , we launch the attack to Sicily again . but it seems quite difficult . But since we took Sardinia , we will make there as a airbase ! Then Italy will come to its end .



Image








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Image

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Crazygunner1 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:57 am

Finland1944 wrote:As axis I feel that later in the game my tacs are useless, because for using them I need fgts too, and can't afford to repair all these. Usually you don't have fuel, so by suggesting this no fuel -variation I fooled myself to believe that I can afford to build more than I can afford to maintain. :-( The mistake happened in France and in battle of Greece. But I managed to trap and destroy one BB and CV of Morris. Something to tell to eventual grandchildren. :wink:

So "no fuel" made me focus on wrong things. This is a lesson to be learned for those who want to experiment with historical variants.
I think you got the general idea right :) Oil is usually the struggle for germany and since in this game the axis don´t need to focus on it they should priorities PPs instead. Activate Spain, perhaps take england and other pp strong tactics.

Your mech and tank army are strong in the beginning of Barbarossa but then as you enter the wast fields of Russia you need corps to fill in the line and support. Closing in on winter 41/42 you should have around 30 corps atleast on the eastern front in order to hold a sustainable frontline during winter.

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Crazygunner1 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:31 pm

Explaining what i mean using the zone of control.

I will take a corp as an example. Normal corp moves 4 hex in sufficient supply. If you as a defender puts up a straight frontline of units your enemy will have to pay extra movement points(mp) to enter an adjent hex in contact with your frontline.

Lets say that it is summer just to make it simple and we are only playing with corps. You have a straight defense line. Between you and your enemy there are 3 hexes and then your enemy corps are charging to attack your line. You will find that they can only move 2 hexes then zone of control neglects them to use the other 2 mp and a forced to stay 1 hex away from your frontline. When it is your turn you can choose to retreat another 2 hex to have the same effect. This takes a bit of practice and other units like mechs and tanks have longer reach so it makes it a bit more difficult but still doable. During winter, movement is severely hampered by snow so retreat and advance is even slower. If you time a retreat during winter correctly you will loose little or no troops at all, also give up as little as 10 hexes of frontline wich you easily can take back when summer comes.

A fighting retreat is pretty much the same, but sometimes russian players get´s frustrated and overextend in order to catch your retreating frontline. Witch leaves valuable shocktroops like mechs and tanks exposed without support from corps. Sometimes it might be a good idea to launch a combined strike from luftwaffe and the whermacht to knock out those exposed valuable frontline troops. It is a gamble, because next turn the enemy will most likely catch up and engage your frontline. On the other hand you will have taken the edge of the attack. So it might be worth it.

When retreating i sometimes leave german corps entrenched with a defensive leader attached to it in a city. Makes like a small fortress and will usually buy you some time or in some cases they even bypass them. If they bypass you will only have to link up in order to rail in reinforcements usually behind enemy lines, could be a nasty surprise ;)

Hope this was helpful :)

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Re: Pekka Sormunen Axis vs Morris Allies (free oil)

Post by Crazygunner1 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:43 pm

The latest screen shot you can se morris penetrated your frontline and exposed his tank and corp. If you would have had the strenght to counterattack you could have knocked out a tank, corp and restored the frontline. But since you didn´t have enough groundforces to support the frontline i advocated a retreat instead. Better to save your troops and fight another day....

Morris is a good player and he knows that you don´t have the strenght to retaliate so he will attack mercilessly during winter. We also know that Morris always attacks with no regard to casualties ;)

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