Firing through skirmish screen

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Daemionhunter
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Firing through skirmish screen

Post by Daemionhunter » Fri May 23, 2014 9:06 pm

How do you rule on effect of light infantry skirmish screens.
"Firing over intervening units" on page 52 says that artillery can only fire at a unit behind skirmishes if they are
1. Target is at long range
2. Skirmishes are nearer the guns than the target
3. Skirmishes are at least 2MU from both

However "Dice allocation" on page 51, bullet point 3, that artillery can ignore units in Skirmish formation if another target is available in the same range band.

I would argue that the first rule trumps the second where my units are advancing very closely behind my light infantry skirmishers as the infantry behind cannot be shot at as they are not an "available" target as there are intervening units in the way.

This came up in last nights game vs Justice Goldsbury. The issue had no impact on the game where the law finally held sway due to my misuse of cavalry and horse artillery.

KendallB
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by KendallB » Fri May 23, 2014 9:29 pm

I agree with you.

The ignoring skirmishers in the same range band is only if there is another legitimate target as well as the skirmishers at close/medium range.

If you have a non-skirmishing target at long range directly behind a skirmishing unit who is also at long range, then the non-skirmishers may be fired upon so long as they are over 2MU from the skirmishers. I believe this is the effect of being able to fire roundshot through a loose formation
Last edited by KendallB on Sat May 24, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

SirGarnet
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by SirGarnet » Sat May 24, 2014 4:48 am

I think the rule interaction is a little tricky.

Artillery always shoots targets in the closest range band. Artillery can opt not to allocate dice against a unit in skirmish order if it has another valid target in the same range band. So for the "Artillery is allowed to fire through enemy skirmishers" at a long range target option to apply, the skirmishers must be a valid target and must be in the long range band.

Since they must be nearer the guns than the distant target, and maximum range is 16 MU, the skirmishers must be between 6 and 8 MU from the guns for this option to apply. The bit about the skirmishers being at least 2 MU away from both guns and distant target is irrelevant as the "nearer than" rule imposes a much greater distance.

For the 2 MU limitation to have any purpose, it must be that the overhead fire rule lets us disregard the rule requiring shooting at the closest range band. I.e., the skirmishers can be in close or medium range but we can shoot through them at the distant long range target if conditions conditions are met. To me this makes sense.

deadtorius
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by deadtorius » Tue May 27, 2014 5:10 am

if the skirmishers are within 2 MU of what you would rather shoot at you have to shoot at the skirmishers, they become the mandatory target. IF too far forward then you can shoot over skirmishers at whatever is behind them. At least if I remember correctly that is what it says

terrys
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by terrys » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:40 pm

The rules is more designed to permit you to ignore the poorer target of 2 adjacent ones, rather than one behind the other.
Allowing artillery to fire through enemy skirmisher in all circumstances would make their value useless.

You can only fire through skirmishers at another (legal) target at long range.
I've add the word 'legal' because it should be assumed.....as it is with all other references to a target.
If the target is within 2MU of the skirmishers, they are NOT a legal target and therefore cannot be fire at.

Players should note the following:
1) Firing at targets at close range is compulsory
2) Firing at targets at medium or long range is NOT compulsory
....Sometime it can be useful to not fire at a wavering enemy at medium range to ensure they don't retire before you get to move to close range.
3) Artillery can choose to fire at EITHER medium range or long range, but not both.
4) You can choose to fire at a target beyond or through skirmishers even if the skirmishers are at medium range as long as your preferred target is at long range (and more than 2MU away from the skirmishers).

KeefM
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by KeefM » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:54 am

Terry, how does your point 3) come about ? Page 51, right hand column Dice Allocation first bullet point says "Artillery will always direct all their fire at targets within the closest range band". That doesn't seem to allow for any choice at all.

terrys
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by terrys » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:00 pm

Terry, how does your point 3) come about ? Page 51, right hand column Dice Allocation first bullet point says "Artillery will always direct all their fire at targets within the closest range band". That doesn't seem to allow for any choice at all.
I was looking at the paragraph on page 52:
>Artillery is allowed to fire through enemy skirmishers at valid targets beyond; as long as the target is at long range, the skirmishers are nearer to the guns than the target and the skirmishers are at least 2MU away from both.
I was trying to find something useful for this rule because that I think would have been a good option. It is largely useless except for extremely rare situations.

However, I think that you are correct - The 2 entries on page 51 block this as an option:
> Artillery will always direct all their fire at targets within the same range band.
> Artillery may ignore units entirely in skirmish formation if another target is available within the SAME range band.

So I guess we should DELETE my previous entries:
3) Artillery can choose to fire at EITHER medium range or long range, but not both.
4) You can choose to fire at a target beyond or through skirmishers even if the skirmishers are at medium range as long as your preferred target is at long range (and more than 2MU away from the skirmishers).

or change them to:
3) Artillery can choose only fire at long range only if it has no target at short or medium range.
4) You can choose to fire through skirmishers at a target behind them as long as both are at long range and the target is more than 2MU away from the skirmishers.

deadtorius
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by deadtorius » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:29 pm

I would go for the first option as it seems to be more or less what the original rule intent appears to have been,

terrys
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Re: Firing through skirmish screen

Post by terrys » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:30 pm

I would go for the first option as it seems to be more or less what the original rule intent appears to have been,
Sometimes the 'intent' isn't quite what the 'wording' is, and in general I stick to the 'wording' to avoid players in different groups using different rules.
If I want to change the wording to match the intent I do it via the errata.

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