E17CM Mod 1.0 RELEASED! Many new armylists and nations!

Ardaeshir
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E17CM Mod 1.0 RELEASED! Many new armylists and nations!

Post by Ardaeshir » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:00 pm

RELEASE VERSION 1.0

DOWLOAD LINK:
http://speedy.sh/4XDhm/EARLY17THCENTURY-1.0.zip

Please NOTE: If you had aprevious version, delete the contents of your CAMPAIGNS\EARLY17THCENTURY folder and use the one if the zip below.this is NOT an incremental patch.

High priority:
Tsardom of Russia - DONE
United Provinces (Dutch) - DONE
Safavid Persia - DONE
Zaporozhian Cossacks - DONE
Crimean Khanate - DONE
Kingdom of Portugal (restoration) - DONE
Russian Civil war usurper armyslist - DONE
TYW English armyslist - DONE
Tweaking the Polish-Lithuanian roster a bit - DONE


Low priority:

Mughals
Venetians
Moldavians&Wallachians
Irish&other ECW related forces
I'd be willing to do West African kingdoms (Benin and Songhay) if anyone would be willing to help with unit textures or models.


Here's a preview of the Russian army:
Image

The backbone of the Russian military are the Streltsy (Heavy weapons and muskets) and Pomyestna Cavlary (new unit type - Cavalry, light lance, swordsmen 50% bow. Above average morale, average armor).

Overall the russian noble cavalry is a rough equivalent of the Timariots, except that it is proficient with light lancers, but less with bows. Its impact characteristics should be quite deadly against most non-pike infantry and regular cavalry. However, it is still a levy unit, hence elan is lower than high quality cavalry of most european armies. They can't stand up to polish Pancerni or Husarrs or western Cuirassiers (lower elan, lower morale, lower armor).

Additionally, western mercenaries in the form of pike&shot german style infantry, dragoons and reiters are available in decent numbers. Don cossacks and Tatars can provide some limited amounts of additional cavalry types. Artillery is numerous as far as eastern europe goes and is up to most western levels.

The Russian army also has access to huge amounts of mob levy infantry if needed.
Last edited by Ardaeshir on Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 12 times in total.

dogovich
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by dogovich » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:50 am

So how do I install this to make it work? Is it good for single player?

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:26 am

Very nice.
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:29 am

dogovich wrote:So how do I install this to make it work?
Download it.

Open the zip and dig down to the EARLY17THCENTURY folder.

Copy that into My Documents/My Games/PikeandShot/Campaigns

and voila, you can use it for SP skirmishes by selecting the "Early 17th Century" campaign.
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by nikdav » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:06 pm

Very good project !

Thanks :)

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by Sabratha » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:49 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:Very nice.
Why thank you., its a pleasure to hear this from such a distinguished game designer.


Ardaeshir already stated the basics behind our mod, he is our expert on Persia, the middle east and Africa so he can tell you more about what we have planned for those armylists.

As for me, my part is central and eastern Europe. So the plans (and controversies) in this respect are as follows:

- Poles will get a very small amount (1-2 max) of Elears - an elite light horse unit. These were an elite formation that originated from Lisowski's raiders. These will also be available for early TYW Habsburgs (served in the 30 years war as mercenaries) and Russian usurpers (Lisowski's unit served under Dymiri the imposter in Russia). Poland will cease to have the "light cossacks" ("real" zaporozhian cossacks in the Polish army were exclusively infantry.)

- I'm not a big fan of having separate "Armoured Cossacks" and "Unarmored Cossacks" in the Polish army list - By the 17th century the "Jazda Kozacka" (had nothing in common with Don cossacks or Zaporozhian cossacks other than the name btw - the people serving in the Jazda Kozacka were ethnic Poles and Lithuanians) were a pretty uniform bunch as far as armour goes - all had mail armour and used the kalkan (mongol style steppe shield). I understand why in the tabletop version these were 2 different armour types (as their armour is sort of mid-way between tabletop armoured and unarmoured), but in the PC game we have more possibilities of going mid-way with this.
PC version did this with Timariots, so I don't see why the same should't be applied to Jazda Kozacka - 75 armour. I do not think the pistol melee trait is adequate for them. I will need to test this, but I think the closest equivalent would be what the tabletop game made with Szeklers or Hungarian Hussars - light lancers+swords+bow, with a later variant of firearms instead of bow.

- Poles will get some amount of optional noble levy horse (Pospolite Ruszenie). Unlike Russian levy horsemen, the Polish ones were called up for real combat "once in a blue moon". So it will be of average elan, unarmored swords + limited firearms (50%?). By the 17th century the Polish noble levy usually performed rather poorly, with the exception of southwestern noblemen who were used to warfare with yearly Tatar raids. I may make the southwestern levy its own unit with above average elan and 100% shooting capacity.

- Speaking of Russian mounted levy - I may split this into two types with one beng the "average" ones with 75 armour, with other being "wealthy" wth somewhat higher quality and 100 armour. Wealthy ones will be far less numerous.

- I'm thinking of making two separate armylists for Zaporozhian and Don cossacks. Reason is that Don cossacks represented a much more mounted army, with rather average footmen. Zaporozhian cossacks on the other hand had a very tiny mounted component, the bulk of their army were high quality, well drilled footmen (will be 150 elan, musket+swordsmen).

dogovich
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by dogovich » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:11 am

I like the look of the Muscovites. Use to have a really nice 15mm army of them.

One thought, is there anyway to get them to fight against the Ottomans? As I recall, while their main enemy other than the Poles was the Crimean Tartars, they had little love for the Turks either. would be a good fight.

dogovich
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by dogovich » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:29 am

Yeah... these guys fight about as good as my old miniature Muscovites. Had a really bloody 2000pt battle with the Poles. Finally broke, but the Poles were close as well. Created an "axis" Muscovite Army and fought the Ottomans at about 2000pts. Wasn't pretty. Thought I was doing okay, then my cavalry started turning tail and fled in great numbers. Seems I remember that the Russian Cavalry wasn't all that good.

This is a nice, challenging force to work with. Can't wait to see what you could do with the Tartars.

Noticed something about elephants. Do the graphics really support elephants and are they like the Moghul and Hindu type?

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by dogovich » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:33 am

Were the Polish Pancerni Cavalry still around? Remember I had a bunch in miniature. George Gush's book seemed to indicate that they were half way competent.
Agree with you about the Polish Noble Levy.

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:01 am

dogovich wrote:Noticed something about elephants. Do the graphics really support elephants and are they like the Moghul and Hindu type?
Elaphants are fully coded in the game (for Indian etc. elephants), but currently lack a model and textures.
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by jomni » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:44 am

Looks great.

dogovich
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by dogovich » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:44 pm

We need some elephants models then. Am a big fan of elephant armies.

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by TheGrayMouser » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:43 pm

d/l last nite and it looks great! Will have to lead em vs some armies, but ist glance I suspect they will be a difficult army to face with all the above average muskets available.

Cheers!

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by Sabratha » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:18 pm

dogovich wrote:I like the look of the Muscovites. Use to have a really nice 15mm army of them.

One thought, is there anyway to get them to fight against the Ottomans? As I recall, while their main enemy other than the Poles was the Crimean Tartars, they had little love for the Turks either. would be a good fight.
Well, there was no historical direct conflict between Turkish and Russian forces in the modpack's timeframe (1600-1650). Tatar and Russians fought one another all the time though.

There was one incident in which a Tatar force backed by a sizable Turkish contingent in 1568 beseiged Russian held Astrakhan and was routed by a Russian relief army.

The next direct Turkish-Russian confrontation did not come until 1677 when Turks sent a contingent to assist their then-ally the Zaporozhian cossacks against Russia.
dogovich wrote:Yeah... these guys fight about as good as my old miniature Muscovites. Had a really bloody 2000pt battle with the Poles. Finally broke, but the Poles were close as well. Created an "axis" Muscovite Army and fought the Ottomans at about 2000pts. Wasn't pretty. Thought I was doing okay, then my cavalry started turning tail and fled in great numbers. Seems I remember that the Russian Cavalry wasn't all that good.

This is a nice, challenging force to work with. Can't wait to see what you could do with the Tartars.
Keep in mind the Russian cavalry is being very much tested and tweaked at this point. Unlike the tabletop rules, i've given them light lancer capability (which I believe 16th and early 17th century Russians deserve and historuical sources back this up), but I will likely tone down their armour to 75 (timariote level) or even 50 and am still tweaking their elan and morale levels.

My current preferred option will be to make separate "average" and "wealthy" version of the pomyestna cavalry. Regulars will have average elan, above average morale and 50-75 armour.Wealthy ones will have 100 armour and above average elan and morale.
dogovich wrote:Were the Polish Pancerni Cavalry still around? Remember I had a bunch in miniature. George Gush's book seemed to indicate that they were half way competent.
Agree with you about the Polish Noble Levy.
Well, its a long story of Polish cavlry evolution.

In the early 16th century Hussars were the "middle weight" cavalry, Kopijnicy were the heavies (equivalent of Gendarmes), while mounted archers, tatars and mounted crossbows provided the light force.

During the early reign of Sigismundus Augustus kopijnicy were going out of fashion while the "strzelcy" (mounted archers and crossbowmen) were being transformed into the early version of Jazda Kozacka. They were rearmed with an eastern style mail armour, being given rohatyna-style spears, sabers and eastern style bows. At the same time Lithuanian Petyhorcy were still a predominately light cavalry, often using antiquated javelins.

By the 17th century Jazda kozacka was pretty much standarized - mail armour, rohatyna, saber, bow and a kalkan shield. They also began gradually adopting carbines instead of bows and sometimes also using pistols. At the same time Petyhorcy were being rearmed with the same weapons that Jazda Kozacka was using.

By the mid and late 17th century both Petyhorcy and Jazda kozacka were armed in the same fashion, bow being replaced by carbines. At this point they were starting to be called "Pancerni". At some point the names Pancerni and Petyhorcy became synonyms, with the latter being used mostly in Lithuania while the former being used in Korona (western and southern parts of the Commonwealth).

So a short answer to your question - Jazda Kozacka of this era are the Pancerni, or rather they will start using that name in a few decades.

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by Miletus » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:50 pm

Just played a very bloody battle between the Russians and the Ottomans. Lots of fun!
Thank you so much for doing this!!!
Cheers,
Miletus.

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just answer the door already!"

Ardaeshir
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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by Ardaeshir » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:04 pm

Miletus wrote:Just played a very bloody battle between the Russians and the Ottomans. Lots of fun!
Thank you so much for doing this!!!
Thanks for the kind words.

New screenshots from the upcoming Dutch army:
Image

This one is going to be mostly "by the book" and pretty much as it is in the tabletop version.

Maurits van Oranje is the face of this army btw. :D

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Early 17th century Russians

Post by Miletus » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:53 pm

I've played a couple of games now with the AI controlling the Russian side. One thing I've noticed is that the AI seems to select quite a few of the Poorly Armed Levy units. I was wondering if this is historically accurate - genuine question btw as I know nothing about the Russian armies of the period - and also whether the designers think it weakens the AI side? Obviously the units are cheap, but in one battle their presence did make it easy for my cavalry to roll up the Russian line.
Cheers,
Miletus.

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just answer the door already!"

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by dogovich » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:09 pm

I just fought a big 2000pt fight against the Muscovites using the Ottomans and I got run off the map. Close thing though. Good fun.

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Re: Early 17th century Russians

Post by Ardaeshir » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:23 am

Miletus wrote:I've played a couple of games now with the AI controlling the Russian side. One thing I've noticed is that the AI seems to select quite a few of the Poorly Armed Levy units. I was wondering if this is historically accurate - genuine question btw as I know nothing about the Russian armies of the period - and also whether the designers think it weakens the AI side? Obviously the units are cheap, but in one battle their presence did make it easy for my cavalry to roll up the Russian line.
The early 17th century Russian conflicts were to a large extent civil wars between different noble factions for control of the Tsar's throne, or attempts to hold off various "false Dimitri" and other pseudo-tsar impostors. There was also a huge mass uprising against Tsarist central rule taht featured mostly poor farmers militias and cossacks (Bolotnikov's uprising).
Even the war against the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth featured significant amounts of foot mass levies. Even in open field regular amy battles - like In the battle of Klushino - they were present. Although in that case they mostly stood in the rear and were assigned field work duties etc.
The foot levies in Klushino fled without much of a fight after they seen their cavalry being cut down. However in later stages of the conflict against Poland (such as the siege of the Polish troopsin Moscow) Minin and Pozharsky's foot levies took an active and significant part.

At this point there is one Russian armylist, as we are mostly testing unit types and tweaking them. At a later poitn we are going to split these into several variants (ETYW era, LTYW era, Dimitriad impostor army, Bolotnikov's force etc). These will feature varying armounts of levies depending on the force and timeframe. There will also be other differences - Dimitriad forces will feature much more cossacks, have Polish mercenary cavalry and elears. They will be almost devoid of strelsty though.

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Re: Early 17th century Modpack

Post by Miletus » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:16 am

Thanks for clarifying that Ardaeshir. Great to hear that there will be more specific variants of the Russian army list in the future. You guys are doing a fantastic job!
I'm going to have to find some good reading material on the subject :D
Cheers,
Miletus.

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just answer the door already!"

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