Caracole II -- Phase 2

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

Moderators: rbodleyscott, Slitherine Core, Gothic Labs

deadtorius
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by deadtorius » Mon May 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Deadtorius (24%) victorious vs kmaher (50%)

Kmaher (Turks) took an almost all mounted force while their Russian opponents took a mixed foot mounted force. Considering the Russians had not pikes their foot did surprisingly well with their short ranged arquebus. The Ottoman horse is still a tough opponent in melee but when Turks are shot up before the mounted Russians close the Russians were able to grab a lead that they managed to hold on to. Thank you for the game kmaher, I guess we now know who is the worst of the worst armies :wink:

iandavidsmith
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by iandavidsmith » Tue May 12, 2015 1:10 pm

Pod 2 Result

Iandavidsmith ((Parliament 1642 to 1643) 18% win
vrs
rumguff (Royalist 1642 to 1643) 45% loss

Thanks for the game ,
Ian

flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by flatsix518 » Tue May 12, 2015 2:34 pm

Results posted to here.

John

susji
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by susji » Tue May 12, 2015 9:46 pm

Result Pod C

Susji (24%) Spanish 1610/1620 won to Ulysisgrunt (54%) Holland 1610/1639

I tried to surprise the Dutch player entering his right with the bulk of my troops, but realized quickly and pitched his battle line with his left hand resting in a forest, in the center and right up the bulk of his cavalry. Got the victory thanks to the superior quality of my infantry, itchy hand, charged uphill center and drove away. The victory of his cavalry on his right wing was useless because it did not come in time to support his infantry. Thanks for a good game. Until next time.

moncholee
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by moncholee » Wed May 13, 2015 8:58 pm

Fellow Pod A Generals, my challenge for all of you is:

French 1550-1559 vs Spanish -Imperial 1543-1559
Agricultural battlefield.

Good luck!

cavehobbit
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by cavehobbit » Thu May 14, 2015 9:43 am

moncholee wrote:Fellow Pod A Generals, my challenge for all of you is:

French 1550-1559 vs Spanish -Imperial 1543-1559
Agricultural battlefield.

Good luck!
Challenge accepted. I took the French. Password = moncholee
Good luck!

Aryaman
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by Aryaman » Thu May 14, 2015 10:14 am

moncholee wrote:Fellow Pod A Generals, my challenge for all of you is:

French 1550-1559 vs Spanish -Imperial 1543-1559
Agricultural battlefield.

Good luck!
I take the French, password tercio

flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by flatsix518 » Thu May 14, 2015 5:04 pm

Results posted to here.

John

flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2 -- May 31 End Date

Post by flatsix518 » Thu May 14, 2015 6:17 pm

All,

It is my intention to close scoring on May 31. Soooo....

Everyone should try and complete as many games as they can by then.

Everyone needs to pay attention to scoring -- that all results are correctly posted and I did my math correctly.

Again, a win is worth 3 points and a loss is worth 1 point.

Best regards,

John

rbodleyscott
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu May 14, 2015 6:59 pm

moncholee wrote:Fellow Pod A Generals, my challenge for all of you is:

French 1550-1559 vs Spanish -Imperial 1543-1559
Agricultural battlefield.

Good luck!
I will take the French.

PW: DonQuixote
Richard Bodley Scott

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susji
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by susji » Thu May 14, 2015 10:11 pm

Result Pod C

Susji (9%) Russian 1598/1620 won to Hrothgar (42%) Polish 1576/1610

The battlefield was atypical, with a large central plateau almost impassable. I decided to threaten with my right wing and bet everything on my left. He was perfect: I caught his wing cavalry and took unsupported, moreover they arrived just in time flanking my troops, who sentenced hopeless little hope the Polish player. The remaining Polish troops could hardly influence the battle.

Aryaman
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by Aryaman » Fri May 15, 2015 6:27 am

POD A

Aryaman (French Catholics) won 41%vs 62% Batesmotel (French Huguenotes)

A very confused battle in which victory was more due to luck than design

flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by flatsix518 » Fri May 15, 2015 1:42 pm

Results posted to here.

John

flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by flatsix518 » Fri May 15, 2015 2:29 pm

Result Pod B

flatsix518 (25%) Italian 1494-1530 won to iandavidsmith (51%) French 1494-1525

Ian played gamely with the French who are always at a great disadvantage in this matchup. Furthermore, this game was much closer in the middle before the toll of shooting and more numerous units broke down the French.

I've played this matchup quite a lot. Not to gain a competitive advantage, but because I like the period. Once I quit buying pikes for the Italians, they have always won and I've only won once with the French. I'd like to see this pairing be better balanced. I am considering opening a discussion about "player conditions". I'll probably post that later today.

Ian -- thanks for the game. And yes, we still have a reverse game to play -- you get to pick the pairs this time.

Best regards,

John

flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2 -- Play Balance

Post by flatsix518 » Fri May 15, 2015 2:39 pm

All,

Overall, I am pleased with how Caracole is now working between Pod organizing and creating a scoring system that doesn't require full participation by everyone to support a reasonable outcome for players.

I've been somewhat stubbornly playing the Italian Wars French and Italian matchup. I have to say I am disheartened that this pairing is not well balanced. In addition, the best list strategy for the Italians is to take all light troops and mounted -- no pikes and no artillery. They will almost always win, I believe, because of the constraints on the French army list options.

I didn't discover this on my own. When I originally started playing the Italians, I would always take 2-3 pike blocks. Pantherboy took the Italians and harshly schooled me. Once I learnt the lesson, I never looked back -- anytime I played the Italians, I won. All but one time I've played the French, I lost.

My concern is that there are historically and stylistically interesting army match-ups that may disappear from tournament play because of play-balance issues. I'm not sure how to address this. Again, I enjoy this period -- hate to see it go away because it is not a viable pairing for tournament play.

Best regards,

John

Tiopepe
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by Tiopepe » Fri May 15, 2015 3:04 pm

Challenge accepted for Moncholee.

Ill take French. Password: tercioviejo

Suerte!

TheGrayMouser
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2 -- Play Balance

Post by TheGrayMouser » Fri May 15, 2015 3:16 pm

flatsix518 wrote:All,

Overall, I am pleased with how Caracole is now working between Pod organizing and creating a scoring system that doesn't require full participation by everyone to support a reasonable outcome for players.

I've been somewhat stubbornly playing the Italian Wars French and Italian matchup. I have to say I am disheartened that this pairing is not well balanced. In addition, the best list strategy for the Italians is to take all light troops and mounted -- no pikes and no artillery. They will almost always win, I believe, because of the constraints on the French army list options.

I didn't discover this on my own. When I originally started playing the Italians, I would always take 2-3 pike blocks. Pantherboy took the Italians and harshly schooled me. Once I learnt the lesson, I never looked back -- anytime I played the Italians, I won. All but one time I've played the French, I lost.

My concern is that there are historically and stylistically interesting army match-ups that may disappear from tournament play because of play-balance issues. I'm not sure how to address this. Again, I enjoy this period -- hate to see it go away because it is not a viable pairing for tournament play.

Best regards,

John
I too like the period, but I think that module does have some issue
*limited armies (wheres Max. German!)
*imbalance of LIGHT troops is way more apparent in this module (actually its non existant imho for the 30yw)
Even the ealier Spanish army can destroy the French with ease....(piles of ligt troops and rodeleros that can stop gendarmes cold!)

I suppose the only solution is to MOD it, maybe have at least 50%(or more) of arquebusiers be mediums rather than lights, code rodeleros as mediums vs heavies... Colonellas likley would need to be toned down a little too, if hisotically they were that good, why the reorg into Tercios? Or one could just reduce movement rate of light foot to same as other infanry, they will certainly get caught if they stand in front of a Swiss pike block , hehe

rbodleyscott
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri May 15, 2015 3:46 pm

Pod A result:

rbodleyscott (French Huguenot 1589-1599) (22%) won vs Tiopepe (Spanish 1569-1599) (56%)

There was initial scare when the Royal Swiss disrupted on impact against a Veteran Tercio, but they stubbornly held on until the end of the battle, eventually rallying to Steady.

Meanwhile the other unit of Swiss defeated the Later Tercio they were fighting, and elswhere on the field much arquebusry (is that the word?) was exchanged.

The Huguenots had more arquebuses and that told.

Thanks Tiopepe for a hard fought game, in the balance until close to the end.
Richard Bodley Scott

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flatsix518
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by flatsix518 » Fri May 15, 2015 4:03 pm

Results posted to here.

John

rbodleyscott
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Re: Caracole II -- Phase 2

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri May 15, 2015 5:20 pm

flatsix518 wrote:Results posted to here.

John
You have credited pantherboy with his second victory against me, but you have not credited me with my second defeat against him. (I was thinking so what, but in fact I think I should get a point for it, right?)
Richard Bodley Scott

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