AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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duncanr
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by duncanr » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:33 pm

you are missing 1 key point, that is the very minimal attack on Russian forces after Barbarossa - yes the Red's lost a couple of cities they don't always lose but they kept their forces intact, thats a big thing

the axis didn't really attack at all after Moscow and the reality is its just a couple of fine points that will decide this game (Supermax is great on the attack but his defense of space isn't perfect)

its easy in hindsight to comment but I wouldn't read to much into this game

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:51 pm

I was surprised that Supermax let the Russians get air superiority. The German jet fighters could have crippled the Russian air force in 1943. That would have happened at the expense of keeping the Allies at bay in France and Sicily. Since Russia is the most dangerous opponent I think it's probably best to deny them air superiority.

I can understand the temptation to mess up the Allied landings like Supermax did. It put the Allies on the back foot for awhile, but once the jet fighters were heavily depleted and Germany didn't have PP's to repair then them then the Allies quickly got back into the game.

Maybe the initiative started to swing to the Allies when the convoys arrived in British ports, thus allowing the Allies to build lots of strategic bombers. These bombers hit the German cities hard so production suffered. I think it's hard to recover as the Axis if the Allies have achieved air superiority in the Med and west.

Regardless of the outcome I think Vokt has defended very well and got on the offense in a great way. I have a feeling that Supermax felt he had everything under control when he got Archangel, Moscow and Leningrad. Most of us also felt that the Axis had got the Russians down to their knees. For some reason they weren't. So seeing the losses from both sides would probably tell a lot.

AAR's with Supermax is always fun. Lots of things will happen and you can be assured that he won't follow the expected strategy. I hope we get a rematch between Vokt and Supermax with the sides changed. It would be fun to see what Max can do with the Allies. :D

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Carlos_Danger » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:51 am

There does not seem to be much harm in losing Archangel or Belmorsk if the pp just go to the Allies instead !

If the Russians lose Archangel/Belmorsk then the convoy can go to the English.
But, the Russians were mostly getting trucks and stuff like that, which the Russians badly needed but, might not be that much good to the English.

Maybe the Russian convoy can turn in to a English convoy at 50% reduced value ?
or even less than 50% ?
maybe 0% ?

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:37 am

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Vokt
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Vokt » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:44 pm

Supermax has allowed me to read and to comment in the AAR so here you are some.

First of all, I have to say this: great game and great AAR! No wonder why this AAR is having so many hits because it's really interesting and fun reading all the time.

Regarding the game, from the Brits struggle at sea against Kriegsmarine to the Soviet Union desperate years of 1941-42, it has been a continuous challenge for Allies in which Axis could well have knocked out the Soviets, this making very diffiucult for Western Allies to turn the tide. 1943 was the decisive year in which the strategic decisions made in both Axis and Allies meant current late 1944 outcome.

I will comment first about large naval battles of 1941-42. Once Kriegsmarine started to sink several Allied DD's and its surface fleet joined the subs in the Atlantic, Royal Navy units decided to refugee in ports as first measure. We didn't know how strong Kriegsmarine buildup was going to be so maybe that was the best thing to do. The fact is that the additional British sub that was purchased just in case of a possible Sea Lion operation resulted very useful to the British. This couple of British subs harassing and attacking Kriegsmarine BB's played an important role in the later Allied victory at sea since they surely made feel German navy uncomfortable all the while

By the way, talking of subs, some guy has commented about the fact that subs harassing BB's in port is a not much realistic thing. I don't think so. Sub units attacking BB's and CV's in port might abstractly be representing minelaying activities which were made at a great scale during the war. Check out WW2 naval statistics and you will see that sea mines were second in terms of tonnage when it comes to causes of sinkings. For those reasons, I don't think that any change should be made here.

1942 brought US Navy to the sea board and also the spotting of the German CV unit which was really unexpected event. Steady sinking of Allied DD's whilst doing escorting duties made the Allies to forget about escorting convoys for a while and to go after German navy in a coordinated and concentrated attack that would be made simultaneously from US and UK navies. So we started to carefully count hexes and to position the fleets so both had German navy within range of attack. Subs, now reinforced with US sub, spotting all the time the location of the German fleet, were crucial.

Coordinated naval attack was made so all naval units participated. First the subs trying to attack capital ships and discovering hidden subs in the process. Second, DD's hitting hard German subs in the locations known to be occupied by them and then the attack by CV's and BB's. As you know, as a result, German navy had to refugee in French ports and after being further harassed (RAF fighters mauling turn after turn German CV), no longer was a threat for Allies convoys.

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:00 am

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:46 pm

Well well! We are still alive and well, confined in our state-of-the-art bunkers and all! :) Wonder if we can see march. We just might, with mud weather. We'll just have to hope and see!

I should also post a full account of the game and all soon. I have read many comments here in this AAR. One of the things that most of you have to understand is that i really like to try new stuff in this game. So yes, all you armchair generals iot doesnt always make strategic sense hehehe. Of course i know that it isnt necessarily the best strategy to have CV or defend to the last in the east, or try to stop the allies from landing (at the expense of letting the Russian go at it). But since i had never tried it, i did! You guys must admit that it was interesting to see the allies fail again and again to land in Sicily or northern France. I know Vokt certainly enjoyed the challenge, because it was unexpected.

Its like the game where i invaded portugal with the allies (see previous AAR), or invaded north america (see previous AAR), or the first time i did a Fortress Europa strategy(where i basically controlled all the map from England/ Spain/Agadir to Iran that was also conquered). It still ended up being a very close win because the Russians basically were able to roll the map all the way to Sicily hahaha, and the allies landed in Spain where we stopped them cold in the Pyrennees in 1945. Its all for the fun of it.

Also Believe it i have been enjoying myself more since in this game since the desperate times of 43-44, since it was a REAL mental challenge and also kinda of a different game.

I just wish players against me would also try something different, like a Fortress Europa strategy, a successeful Sealion (so i can try it for a change, to reconquer britain!), or go for Spain, etc! Would there be any creative players to play against me? I would just loove to be surprised for a change. Not surprised tactically, but REALLY surprised by so unextpected a move that i would just be baffled when opening my turn :) Carlos Danger has shown some interesting ideas, i wish i could play agame against him.

I have been by the way mulling over some ideas about a game where i envision Germany invading Turkey. Strategically its cheesy, but oh my what an interesting game it would be. There are still untried strategies in this game. Once i even tried a strategic bombing capability with the germans where i bombed the russian oilfields from Iran/Iraq to deny the russians oil, since they start with low stock. That game ended up ina landslide for the germans because the Russians were never able to organize and win air superiority until 1944, being lacking oil. Also a allies invasion of Turkey would pose an interesting situation, opening the southern flank of Europe. 2 things i will try out soon. Anyway... to the game!

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:51 pm

Also, who want to play next?

duncanr
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by duncanr » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:50 am

see I told you it would be 45 :-)

Turkey is very interesting, I have played a couple of games where the Germans have invaded

I have space to fight an Axis opponent

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Cybvep » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:23 am

Once i even tried a strategic bombing capability with the germans where i bombed the russian oilfields from Iran/Iraq to deny the russians oil, since they start with low stock.
Interestingly, since the Soviets relied on oil from Baku, this is what the Western Allies planned to do in the event of war with the SU.

BTW it's been a while since I saw the invasion of Spain. It would be interesting to see in one of the games.

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Diplomaticus » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:59 pm

supermax wrote:... One of the things that most of you have to understand is that i really like to try new stuff in this game. So yes, all you armchair generals iot doesnt always make strategic sense hehehe. Of course i know that it isnt necessarily the best strategy to have CV or defend to the last in the east, or try to stop the allies from landing (at the expense of letting the Russian go at it). But since i had never tried it, i did! ...


I have been by the way mulling over some ideas about a game where i envision Germany invading Turkey.
Max, thanks once again for providing us all with another outstanding AAR!

Thank you, too, for the way that you keep pushing the envelope and keeping the game fun and fresh.

You mention bringing Turkey into the game, and I think that's a great point. Playing the old Avalon Hill 'Third Reich' game I used to invade Turkey with either the Russians or the Germans. It really opens things up in interesting ways. I loved it in our 'Fortress Europa II' when Turkey suddenly joined the Allies, and the next thing you know rogue Turks were landing on the Italian and Danish (!) coasts. Also, opening up the Bosporus brings the Russians into the Med. Much fun.

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:18 pm

Diplomaticus wrote:
supermax wrote:... One of the things that most of you have to understand is that i really like to try new stuff in this game. So yes, all you armchair generals iot doesnt always make strategic sense hehehe. Of course i know that it isnt necessarily the best strategy to have CV or defend to the last in the east, or try to stop the allies from landing (at the expense of letting the Russian go at it). But since i had never tried it, i did! ...


I have been by the way mulling over some ideas about a game where i envision Germany invading Turkey.
Max, thanks once again for providing us all with another outstanding AAR!

Thank you, too, for the way that you keep pushing the envelope and keeping the game fun and fresh.

You mention bringing Turkey into the game, and I think that's a great point. Playing the old Avalon Hill 'Third Reich' game I used to invade Turkey with either the Russians or the Germans. It really opens things up in interesting ways. I loved it in our 'Fortress Europa II' when Turkey suddenly joined the Allies, and the next thing you know rogue Turks were landing on the Italian and Danish (!) coasts. Also, opening up the Bosporus brings the Russians into the Med. Much fun.
Yes i forgot about that game! this was amazing. Like i said, i just wish other players wouldnt just be concerned about winning, but making it fun! :)

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:19 pm

duncanr wrote:see I told you it would be 45 :-)

Turkey is very interesting, I have played a couple of games where the Germans have invaded

I have space to fight an Axis opponent
Ok Duncan, lets start a game. I could do another AAR on this one as well. You have 4.0?

If yes, send me your email and we can start running! :)

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:20 pm

duncanr wrote:see I told you it would be 45 :-)

Turkey is very interesting, I have played a couple of games where the Germans have invaded

I have space to fight an Axis opponent

I also promess i will try to make it interesting.

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by duncanr » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:37 pm

excellent, I might post some ARR stuff from my side as well

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:20 am

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Diplomaticus » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:37 pm

supermax wrote:Image
"You cannot approach the coast of a neutral country" in GS 4.0? I can see the logic of that, as Max says, but doesn't it create some new problems? For instance, trying to take minor countries like Norway and Greece were already a challenge. Won't this make it nigh impossible? I think of the usual tactics used by Germany to land in Norway, but how's that supposed to work now?

If I remember my history right, at least in Denmark the Germans used sneaky tactics to land troops (soldiers hidden in a freighter in Copenhagen's port, I think?)

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Plaid » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:19 pm

Diplomaticus wrote:
"You cannot approach the coast of a neutral country" in GS 4.0? I can see the logic of that, as Max says, but doesn't it create some new problems? For instance, trying to take minor countries like Norway and Greece were already a challenge. Won't this make it nigh impossible? I think of the usual tactics used by Germany to land in Norway, but how's that supposed to work now?

If I remember my history right, at least in Denmark the Germans used sneaky tactics to land troops (soldiers hidden in a freighter in Copenhagen's port, I think?)
Thats only for major neutral countries (namely USA, USSR and Italy).

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by pk867 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:43 pm

One- the ranges for aircraft have been extended.
Two- So if you are able to get Strategic Operations to level 1 for Germany then you are able to paradrop to capture

Oslo.

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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Diplomaticus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:...The red circles with numbers in indicates leaders and the number is the command range. It makes it easier to place commanders and ensure you cover the important front sections. Leaders now come for free in a particular game year, but can be purchased ahead of time. E. g. Guderian arrives for free in 1941.
This is a big change! I'm used to spending many hundreds of PP on leaders. Is there a schedule available yet on which leaders arrive when? And is buying leaders now no longer a part of GS 4.0?

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