German Commanders

PSP/DS/PC/MAC : WWII turn based grand strategy game

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AugustusTiberius
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German Commanders

Post by AugustusTiberius » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:24 pm

This is not a big thing but it is annoying me and is a layer of historical inaccuracy in the early game that I do not like nor do I think we need.

So, currently Germany gets Rundstedt, Bock, Leeb and Reichenau for 1939 and 1940.

The historical (i.e. actual) OoB for 1939

Heergruppe Sud - Rundstedt
8 Armee - Blaskowitz
10 Armee - Reichenau
14 Armee - List

Heergruppe Nord - Bock
3 Armee - Kuchler (East Prussia)
4 Armee - Kluge)

Heergruppe C - Leeb (Western front)

The OoB for 1940

Heergruppe A - Rundstedt
4 Armee - Kluge
12 Armee - List
16 Armee - Busch
Panzergruppe - Kleist (three Pz XXX - in July this was designated 1st Panzerarmee)

Heergruppe B - Bock
6 Armee - Reichenau
18 Armee - Kuchler

Heergruppe C - Leeb
1 Armee - Witzlebel

My question is why do we have Reichenau in 1939 but not any of the other Army commanders? Answer: We should not as we are getting Army Group (Heergruppe) commanders.

In 1940 why again do we have Reichenau when Kleist would be the obvious choice?

So, what I would offer forward is the following:

1939 - remove Reichenau
1940 - add Kleist
1941 - add Reichenau (maybe - Reichenau was elevated to command Army Group Centre in December 1841 to replace Rundstedt but Reichenau died of a heart attack within a month and so was replaced in turn so maybe he never makes an appearance.)

Clearly we have a commander system based around two key concepts: Army Groups and key (often armour or special, like O'Connor) commanders - hence the influx of the four Panzergruppe commanders in 1941). There are some anomalies as there should be (of course, where is Dietl?).

Bonus - fix locations of the starting three since Leeb always ends up in the East but the point is these are meant to be Army Group commanders and someone had to be in the West.

I put this out there as I know there are a couple of tweaks being finalized (the repositioning of a Polish unit to reduce the one-turn conquest situation. etc.) and it would be nice t get this addressed if possible.

Note - not interested in opening up a whole discussion about what commanders we are missing and having us go around in circles.But maybe by doing this I have opened that door anyway. My bad.

AT

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: German Commanders

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:58 pm

Commanders are usually added at the time they get their most senior command. E. g. Rommel and Guderian fought in 1940 as division Commanders, but arrive in the game in 1941. Guderian commanded a panzer Group in 1941 and Rommel Panzer Armee Afrika.

So some Commanders who participated in Case White are not added because they got more senior commands later. Another aspect is that we try to dish out the Commanders through the different years. That means sometimes you add Commanders at a slightly different time than they should have been.

Usually we pick the Commanders at the year when they participated in an important way in an operation the year they were added.

Let's take Reichenau as an example. He commanded the 10th Army in Case White in Poland and the 6th Army in Russia in 1941. He died from a massive heart attack in January 1942. So he started the war as an army Commander and ended as an army commander. Therefore the right time was to add him in Case White. Maybe he had been given a command of an Army Group later if he hadn't died in 1942.

Blaskowitz commanded the 8th Army in Case White. In 1944 he was given the command of Army Group G. So he actually got a higher command later.

List commanded the 14th Army in Case White and Army Group A from July 1942. So even he got a higher command later.

We spoke about having dynamic Commanders With different stats as the time went by, but the beta testers voted against that. It would complicate the game too much and you have to add a lot of leaders early.

Vokt
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Re: German Commanders

Post by Vokt » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:09 pm

I think the Commanders part of the game is fine now. We did well here IMO.

AugustusTiberius
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Re: German Commanders

Post by AugustusTiberius » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:28 pm

Not sayin' that we did not do well, just flagging what I see as one inconsistency. Others have expressed issues around the number of UK commanders for example so this all just means that there is some discussion but I do not see a big clamour for change.

Will just say though, in terms of promotion to highest level, Kleist's highest level was in mid-1940 after his successful panzergruppe blitzkrieg in France. His panzergruppe was redesignated a panzerarmee and he was promoted accordingly (to a level that allowed him to have the Panzergruppe 1. in Barbarossa).

Any road, these are just my thoughts and the game works fine with or without them so file closed.

AT

Plaid
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Re: German Commanders

Post by Plaid » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:24 pm

British commanders are basically redundant - they can have leader attached to every ground unit all the way (till Overlord atleast).
Probably number of British commanders should be reduced to USA levels instead of being on par with USSR/Germany.

duncanr
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Re: German Commanders

Post by duncanr » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:26 pm

UK is very short of commanders if the Axis goes for Sealion/North Africa/Persia - plenty if the Axis don't

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