I am quite pesimistic about this game...

A new story begins...
The sequel to a real classic: Panzer Corps is back!

Moderator: Panzer Corps 2 Moderators

Post Reply
hugh2711
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:45 pm

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by hugh2711 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:48 am

After reading the many threads about this; I concede that making it 3d will increase the numbers buying it - which is a GOOD thing. I would still like the option to turn the eye candy off.

Will we be able to import 2D scenarios from the origional? will I have to get a new computer to play my favourite scenario? (battlefield europe) or will everyone have to make new versions of thier mega scenarios/campaigns?.

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 6191
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Kerensky » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:15 pm

hugh2711 wrote:After reading the many threads about this; I concede that making it 3d will increase the numbers buying it - which is a GOOD thing. I would still like the option to turn the eye candy off.

Will we be able to import 2D scenarios from the origional? will I have to get a new computer to play my favourite scenario? (battlefield europe) or will everyone have to make new versions of thier mega scenarios/campaigns?.
My understanding is that we're getting a whole new game, with new features, new mechanics, and entirely new ways of doing things. I wouldn't count of being able to port anything over, and even if you can, it would probably take a lot of extra work to make properly functional and integrate new systems. Then again, that's true about porting anything, it always takes a ton of extra work to do it proper and do it right! :mrgreen:

One of the biggest design challenges Panzer Corps 2 will face is actually the direct need to combat campaign porting. If I make a new Grand Campaign for Panzer Corps 2, it had better be a totally fresh experience from the original Grand Campaign, because we would get so much flak for just porting over the old Grand Campaign and selling it all over again in a supposedly new game that I'd feel like a B-17 over Schweinfurt. In fact, there was so much content made in so many campaigns for Panzer Corps, all Panzer Corps 2 will likely be put to this test of needing to cover the battles we all know of, but in new, and hopefully better, ways than it's predecessor.

With that in mind, I don't plan to port any content I made from Panzer Corps to Panzer Corps 2. It would undoubtably take a lot of effort, and probably require extra support from Flashback to iron out some of the wrinkles. We'll see what they have in mind, but I look forward to building fresh from the new systems, not trying to cobble together past and present.

And besides, if I do re-make some content, such as the most popular multiplayer maps like Hylan Valley, they will only be served better for having been remade from the ground up. All the lessons I've learned between the first iteration of that map and the second can be applied to a re-make, which benefits from also having a clean slate to work with any not worried about being anchored to lingering settings.

Though there is the possibility of visiting the Pacific theater, it carries a lot of problems to travel there. For one, the title word 'Panzer' is almost entirely lost in those campaigns, what with no Germans to speak of, and only minor tank action generally limited to bunker busting. The factions of the Pacific concentrate hugely on naval and aircraft, which is a tall order for new unit asset production to handle.

Musketeer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Musketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:19 pm

I will say it quite easy and simple: AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI! AI!

redjack
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:42 pm

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by redjack » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:49 pm

Personally I Am extremely excited about the announcement of the future release of this game. When I heard about it I stopped looking for a new game to purchase so as to be certain I had the funds available to order this as soon as it was available.Thank You,Thank You,Thank You!

verstaubtgesicht
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by verstaubtgesicht » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:21 am

IainMcNeil wrote:We understand your concerns and completely agree that if not done right 3D could hinder not help. That's why Alex is spending a lot of time making sure we don't introduce any problems visually or gameplay wise. Trust us on this and we're sure you won't be disappointed.
Improve the AI and introduce "direction" (units more vulnerable when attacked from behind/side), period. I guess it's easier to make fancy graphics then to create a smart AI...

Rudankort
FlashBack Games
FlashBack Games
Posts: 3563
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:23 pm
Contact:

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Rudankort » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:15 am

verstaubtgesicht wrote:I guess it's easier to make fancy graphics then to create a smart AI...
Each of these tasks has its own challenges, but usually the more time you invest into it, the better the result.

All I can say here is, I'm not involved in coding the graphics at all, I'm only overseeing the process as the principal game designer. If the AI in the new game is not up to some people's expectations, it won't be because of the graphics. :)

Rudankort
FlashBack Games
FlashBack Games
Posts: 3563
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:23 pm
Contact:

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Rudankort » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:18 am

hugh2711 wrote:After reading the many threads about this; I concede that making it 3d will increase the numbers buying it - which is a GOOD thing. I would still like the option to turn the eye candy off.
Well nobody asked for an option to turn off "eye candy" in Panzer Corps 1. ;) What makes you think Panzer Corps 2 will be different?
hugh2711 wrote:Will we be able to import 2D scenarios from the origional? will I have to get a new computer to play my favourite scenario? (battlefield europe) or will everyone have to make new versions of thier mega scenarios/campaigns?.
It's possible to import maps and units from the old game, maybe converting the scripts to new script system will be possible too. But in any event, I seriously doubt that such conversion will be playable without scenario designer carefully tweaking the balance under new system of game rules and mechanics. And this work of play testing and balancing usually takes most of the time to design a good scenario anyway.

Musketeer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Musketeer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:40 am

Reminding for hundreth time: you are not in 3D gamer forum but in tactical warfarer forum with guys, who grow on paper boards who dont give a drat about 3D (IN FIRST PLACE)!

Animations in PG1 was NOT the reason why people played it, believe me! And even if it was little spicing, it just slows extremely big battles. And final note - PG1 would be popular EVEN IF THERE WILL BE NO friggin ANIMATIONS AT ALL! :idea:

I am missing point, why it is needed to attract 3D players, who still are not major buyers anyway!? I dont care about counterstrike 3D, so i am not in forum of CouterStrike 2D too, does it sound understandable? So why the hell forcing 3D to people who dont want it IN FIRST PLACE and 3D lovers who are not turnbased-lovers anwyay but try it because of some eye candy which disgusts players old?

How can you be sure of that, that you dont disgust more old people than attract new non-wargamers and 3D wannabees FPS hunters? :?:

Rudankort
FlashBack Games
FlashBack Games
Posts: 3563
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:23 pm
Contact:

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Rudankort » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:58 am

Well I don't know about you, but I am hearing stories like this all the time:

I play lots of Panzer Corps in single player, but I could never get any of my friends to play with me in Multiplayer. They won't look at it because of the graphics from 90s.

I love Panzer Corps and play it all the time, but all of my family thinks I'm crazy, playing some old crap when there are so many good modern games out there.

etc. etc.

Wider audience we are seeking to attract does not exist somewhere in vacuum on the dark side of the Moon. Those guys are all around us, and if they join the ranks of Panzer Corps players, the old fans will benefit too. More players means more active Multiplayer, more modders and more people consuming content made by them etc. etc.

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3180
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by kondi754 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:59 am

Musketeer wrote:Reminding for hundreth time: you are not in 3D gamer forum but in tactical warfarer forum with guys, who grow on paper boards who dont give a drat about 3D (IN FIRST PLACE)!

Animations in PG1 was NOT the reason why people played it, believe me! And even if it was little spicing, it just slows extremely big battles. And final note - PG1 would be popular EVEN IF THERE WILL BE NO friggin ANIMATIONS AT ALL! :idea:

I am missing point, why it is needed to attract 3D players, who still are not major buyers anyway!? I dont care about counterstrike 3D, so i am not in forum of CouterStrike 2D too, does it sound understandable? So why the hell forcing 3D to people who dont want it IN FIRST PLACE and 3D lovers who are not turnbased-lovers anwyay but try it because of some eye candy which disgusts players old?

How can you be sure of that, that you dont disgust more old people than attract new non-wargamers and 3D wannabees FPS hunters? :?:
Why do you speak on behalf of other players? Speak for yourself.
I played at Panzer General, Panzer General 2, Allied General, Pacific General, all parts of Panzer Corps, Allied Corps, Soviet Corps and US Corps. I also played in various scenarios and campaigns created by players based on these games, so I am also a veteran.
However, I am looking forward to this game with great curiosity and great hopes.
I like the idea of using 3D technology.
Do not throw people into one drawer.

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 3457
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by bebro » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:05 pm

I'm waiting for the day people start to ask for games without any graphics - PzC the text adventure ;)

Or even better - PzC the radio drama - then we don't even have to use displays!

Personally, I enjoy games in 2d as well as in 3d if they are *good* games. That is the only thing that counts to me.

kondi754
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3180
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:52 am

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by kondi754 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:12 pm

PzC radio drama - Unfortunately not for me, my English is too weak. :lol:

Musketeer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Musketeer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:19 pm

Well if developers develop on low end notebooks and Core 2 Duos, then 3D could definitely work... !

Rudankort
FlashBack Games
FlashBack Games
Posts: 3563
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:23 pm
Contact:

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Rudankort » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:23 pm

I'll check out Ebay for some old low-end Core 2 Duo notebooks. :)

Musketeer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Musketeer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:26 pm

Great! ;) Make PLEASE sure game runs on most hw ;)

Finding happy medium for 3D will be probably most challenging...

Yrfin
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:47 am
Location: Behind your backs

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Yrfin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:27 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Rudankort wrote:Thanks for your pessimism guys, keep it coming. It motivates me even more to make a great game and prove you all wrong. :)
Image
Why your picture in old 2D style, but not modern 3D Aristotle ? :)
Last edited by Yrfin on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why ?! Why what !? Why not...

Yrfin
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:47 am
Location: Behind your backs

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Yrfin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:35 pm

Rudankort wrote:More players means more active Multiplayer etc.
IainMcNeil wrote:Multiplayer campaigns is a tricky one. These type of games assume victory to proceed so how do you imagine it working? What happens to the losing side? How does the campaign deal with core forces as each battle one player loses it all. I don't see how you capture the essence of the game if the player has to lose their core not to mention the snowball balancing issues of the winning player having an upgraded core and the loser starting from scratch.
Im in deep confuse. Multiplayer or not Multiplayer ?
Why ?! Why what !? Why not...

proline
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:03 am

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by proline » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:56 pm

Rudankort wrote:Well I don't know about you, but I am hearing stories like this all the time:

I play lots of Panzer Corps in single player, but I could never get any of my friends to play with me in Multiplayer. They won't look at it because of the graphics from 90s.

I love Panzer Corps and play it all the time, but all of my family thinks I'm crazy, playing some old crap when there are so many good modern games out there.

etc. etc.

Wider audience we are seeking to attract does not exist somewhere in vacuum on the dark side of the Moon. Those guys are all around us, and if they join the ranks of Panzer Corps players, the old fans will benefit too. More players means more active Multiplayer, more modders and more people consuming content made by them etc. etc.
There is a LOT you can do to improve the visuals of the existing game without having to rewrite it entirely. Higher resolution sprites (maybe even vector), better contrast between units and terrain, support for higher resolution iPads, etc. It is highly likely that the money and development time you are using on 3D could have gone a long way to improve the existing game. Likely you could have done all of the above and had money leftover to make a better AI. Remember, so far PzC 2 is about delivering LESS to the player. Less iPad support, less content (because existing content won't work), less compatibility and less battery life (because of the strain of 3D on older PCs). Name one feature this game will have that PzC enthusiasts would care about? Just one? Please?

Musketeer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Musketeer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:11 pm

Yeah, MANY HARDCORE hardcore strategist who grow on games like The Falcon Eye, Dwarf Fortress, (everything textually) are sitting over them even today... And it is evidently not because they CANT play anything else if they do not want...

Rudankort
FlashBack Games
FlashBack Games
Posts: 3563
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:23 pm
Contact:

Re: I am quite pesimistic about this game...

Post by Rudankort » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:26 pm

proline wrote:There is a LOT you can do to improve the visuals of the existing game without having to rewrite it entirely. Higher resolution sprites (maybe even vector), better contrast between units and terrain, support for higher resolution iPads, etc. It is highly likely that the money and development time you are using on 3D could have gone a long way to improve the existing game. Likely you could have done all of the above and had money leftover to make a better AI. Remember, so far PzC 2 is about delivering LESS to the player. Less iPad support, less content (because existing content won't work), less compatibility and less battery life (because of the strain of 3D on older PCs). Name one feature this game will have that PzC enthusiasts would care about? Just one? Please?
We are working on a proper sequel to the game, so naturally we plan to improve and expand all important aspects, including gameplay, balance, usability, replayability, AI, multiplayer and more. Weather we'll succeed or not remains to be seen, but at this point it's too early to claim the game is a step back in every sense imaginable. You simply don't have enough information to draw such conclusion.

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps 2”