Burma Road so far...

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Andy2012
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Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:52 pm

First, I wasnt in the beta (busy), so this is the first few minutes with Burma Road for me.
I like it a lot so far, but I have only gotten through the first two missions.
Just minor things:
1. First mission feels alright, pushing back superior Jap forces. Managed to get all secondaries. But I am pretty experienced in this, a new player might be overwhelmed - because the difficulty even on medium is pretty high here.
2. Force Z - a bit off. Started with buying a bomber and some Spitfires, but then restarted after I realized that I get the Vildebeest. Now only Spitfires. My DDs looking for survivors sank one Jap supply ship for me, which gave me the bomber commander - but I had no use for him, since I realized I dont need a bomber here. Jap Ai suicided into my Spitfires and gave me the fighter commander (they literally did zero damage, attacking with 1 strength against me, lost three planes in one turn :shock: ) Also, my DD did not look for survivors, but pick fights with the small Jap force loitering around. Won it now with all secondaries, but it just feels a bit weird and you might want to re-adjust those triggers.

Still, I am having fun. Just minor stuff, might post more.
How is everybody else doing?

koopanique
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by koopanique » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:32 pm

Hello! I was about to made such a topic because I was very excited for Burma Road, and so far I'm quite satisfied with it (just completed Force Z too), and I wanna talk about it.

As Andy2012 said the first scenario is harder than most other scenarios I've played from other campaigns, plus for Burma Road, I set the difficulty to medium (I usually play on difficulty 2, easy). But I managed to get all objectives (by turn 25, but still). The battle at the center once you've captured the main city is quite intense, but the dust settled by about turn 20 for me. After that, it was just a matter of clearing up the remaining JP forces.
The Indian units managed to get the first Thai Checkpoint, but after that they were decimated. I sent an infantry to guard the checkpoint the Indians had captured, but it was useless -- apparently, the JP AI just stops advancing west after it has captured the Eastern checkpoint.

Force Z... is strange. I love scenarios that are exclusively naval and air, like Midway or the Philippines in [US Pacific], and I enjoyed Force Z. But I encountered the same things Andy2012 mentionned (weak JP fighters suiciding on my own air units, and the bomber commander being out of job for this scenario as I didn't have any bomber). The allied DDs didn't help me at all though, I had to sink the JP ship myself. I liked that the player get more units as the scenario is advancing -- keeps things interesting.

All in all I'm still satisfied with these first two scenarios. I also note they're a bit shorter than what I've been used to in OOB (which I do not consider to be a flaw). I can't wait to try the next ones tomorrow :)

Zulkain
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Zulkain » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:46 pm

It seems that I can no longer access any of the custom campaigns I had downloaded. They are unzipped in the same folder as they were before the update, but now when I click on single player, the button to load custom campaigns is no longer there. The custom scenarios seem to be there still, however.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

bru888
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by bru888 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:00 am

Zulkain wrote:It seems that I can no longer access any of the custom campaigns I had downloaded. They are unzipped in the same folder as they were before the update, but now when I click on single player, the button to load custom campaigns is no longer there. The custom scenarios seem to be there still, however.

Is anyone else experiencing this?
I've seen it before. You probably just need to re-install the old DLC along with your game keys (which hopefully you kept) See what I said in this thread here.
- Bru

Zulkain
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Zulkain » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:34 am

All of the Official DLC works fine, including Burma Road. The only thing I can't seem to get to work anymore are Erik's custom campaigns like Blitzkrieg 1939 and so on. Can anyone else still access the "Custom Content" button to select the custom campaigns? Everything is completely patched and I'm just wondering if that may have messed with the custom campaigns because the button is no longer there for me.

bru888
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by bru888 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:20 am

Zulkain wrote:All of the Official DLC works fine, including Burma Road. The only thing I can't seem to get to work anymore are Erik's custom campaigns like Blitzkrieg 1939 and so on. Can anyone else still access the "Custom Content" button to select the custom campaigns? Everything is completely patched and I'm just wondering if that may have messed with the custom campaigns because the button is no longer there for me.
You're right. I will post this in Tech Support.
- Bru

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:57 am

Fall of Singapore - not finished yet, but interesting and fun. Most important thing for me seems to be that you can impossibly hold the Australian positions in the west, so you retreat them all immediately. This means you lose supply, so dont deploy everything (airforce, groundforce had both 6-7 command points left). Buy two heavy arty, only deploy Spitfire to sweep the sky and spot for arty (means bomber commander is still unemployed). Core holds the east, Aussies the west, AT behind infantry, star-shaped.
Works like a charm so far. When I got the message to pull back, I was doing very well and had crippled all Jap attacks on all fronts. Having played Winter War paid dividends here.
How are you guys handling this?

kverdon
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by kverdon » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:25 am

Played through the first 2 scenarios. As others have said the first mission was challenging but plays out OK. (The Indian troops are a bit like keystone cops however...)

Force Z however is right out of Fantasy Island. I mean seriously? It is a total fantasy scenario that does not even play out well. It makes the previous Dunkirk scenario look historical. The biggest laugh is how the Prince of Wales, after inflicting over a dozen damage to enemy attacking units while taking absolutely ZERO damage, mysteriously sinks. You wind up deploying more fighters than were probably present before 1944 and watch the outmatched Japanese fighters suicide attack them. None of it makes ANY sense. Why include it? If you wanted a fantasy scenario, why not make one up for later in the war that could of actually happened and been more interesting. Perhaps a hypothetical defense of Ceylon that lets you deploy more air/naval units due to intel captured in a previous scenario?

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:43 am

kverdon wrote:Played through the first 2 scenarios. As others have said the first mission was challenging but plays out OK. (The Indian troops are a bit like keystone cops however...)

Force Z however is right out of Fantasy Island. I mean seriously? It is a total fantasy scenario that does not even play out well. It makes the previous Dunkirk scenario look historical. The biggest laugh is how the Prince of Wales, after inflicting over a dozen damage to enemy attacking units while taking absolutely ZERO damage, mysteriously sinks. You wind up deploying more fighters than were probably present before 1944 and watch the outmatched Japanese fighters suicide attack them. None of it makes ANY sense. Why include it? If you wanted a fantasy scenario, why not make one up for later in the war that could of actually happened and been more interesting.
I guess it is for introducing players to air battles and how to prioritise attacks on planes.
As far as the sinking goes, well, you have to make the trigger this way or that way. Force Z was sunk, it is all there. And a critical hit is a critical hit; ships can go from seaworthy and fighting to a burning death trap in a second (see e.g. Bismarck). Summed up, I dont mind that much.
BTW, I still had fun and it was a quick mission, sometimes just a bit odd.
(And: What is a keystone cop?)

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:16 am

So I finished fall of Singapore. With the strategy outlined above, I could have held the city easily. (And did, no losses.)
Another major thing I noticed was the AI systematically suiciding itself on my lines. I mean, I had dug in infantry with AT behind and the AI had already taken a shelling from my heavy arty, but still attacked. This way, it lost three to four tanks in one turn. I was watching in amazement. Is this intentional or a script veering off? Hadnt noticed that before.
Anybody else?
Oh yeah, you need to have five units already moved off the map by turn 22, not on turn 22. So be careful when being too successful like me. Thank God I save often.

Erik2
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Erik2 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:37 am

Keystone Cops
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bru888
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by bru888 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:34 pm

Erik wrote:Keystone Cops
"The Keystone Cops (often spelled "Keystone Kops") were fictional incompetent policemen, featured in silent film comedies in the early 20th century... The name has since been used to criticize any group for its mistakes, particularly if the mistakes happened after a great deal of energy and activity, or for a lack of coordination among the members."
- Bru

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:27 pm

@bru and Erik: Thanks.

Finished karawakei pass (right name?) - man, that was difficult. :shock:
For everybody else reading here: Dont buy bombers, buy fighters. Use that bomber commander you get in a fighter. That Fairey battle is rather useless with Jap air superiority. Even with fighter escort. (Escort mechanics are not good imo, but that was discussed here often, I think.)
After you hold the pass and get the secondary, retreat. Immediately.
Also, do nasty tricks - put mines in the city you leave behind and hurry up - you will be undersupplied soon.

Summed up (I know, this is a bit cryptic, in a hurry) - save often, this is difficult. Really difficult. No mistakes allowed, no loitering.
Also, everybody - the AI is really suicidal with both planes and tanks and infantry. Attacking a well-defended, fortified position with revealed AT and losing tank after tank while doing zero damage - is that intentional or a bug? Never had that before until Burma Road.

I am still having a lot of fun, but I feel that this is not for beginners. (Medium difficulty)
And basically retreating and losing mission after mission is historically correct, but fighting retreats are the most difficult military manoeuvre, so beware. :shock:

Erik2
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Erik2 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:58 pm

AI behavior.

I'm guessing starving the Japanese for resources (no/few repairs),
combined with higher than default AI aggression level (> 50) might cause this suicidial behavior.
I have not checked the scenarios in the editor though, so I may be wrong.

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:20 pm

@Erik: Could be. But in Winter War, the Russians just dithered in front of my defenses. This time, they really jump on their swords.

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:06 am

Okay, now did Sitang River Battle and Rangoon Falls.
Fighting withdrawals all around. I like the drama of this and I think Kerensky covered this very well.
Just the difficulty seems to be dropping. Sitang River was really easy, take the crossing, then dig in and watch the Japs impale themselves on my defenses.
Rangoon Falls was also pretty dramatic. If you dont retreat in time, you get squashed.
Another thing - with Japanese air superiority, having bombers or a bomber commander does not make sense. It's all Spitfires for me.
Still, the suicide attack issue persists. While this would be fitting for late war Jap banzai attacks and kamikaze spirit in general, this early in the war, the Japanese were bold and aggressive, but not suicidal. They used their resources wisely. This feels off.

koopanique
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by koopanique » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:11 pm

Question to those who have completed the Kawkareik Pass scenario:

After receiving the objective to recapture the city in the N-W, is it an instant defeat if I lose Kawkareik?
The Event Popup says that "we have to defend the city in the N-W, even if it means losing the city of Kawkareik".
But the objective to defend Kawkareik is still enabled.

So should I leave some units there, or may I forfeit it?

Andy2012
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:20 pm

koopanique wrote:Question to those who have completed the Kawkareik Pass scenario:

After receiving the objective to recapture the city in the N-W, is it an instant defeat if I lose Kawkareik?
The Event Popup says that "we have to defend the city in the N-W, even if it means losing the city of Kawkareik".
But the objective to defend Kawkareik is still enabled.

So should I leave some units there, or may I forfeit it?
No, you have to run and leave that city behind. I suggest making an engineer unit with a truck (if you have one) the rearguard and lay mines in the city. This way, you wont lose the supply so fast. Generally, after you held the mouth of the pass as a secondary, run. Go for the Northwest along the road, capture the small city in the west (relieves supply problems) and then go for the north-west. You shouldnt loiter anywhere. Next few missions get substantially easier.

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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:21 pm

Finished Quit India Denied. Rather unusual. But one thing struck me - they are rioters, but have heavy artillery in sophisticated locations to rain fire on me.

koopanique
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Re: Burma Road so far...

Post by koopanique » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:42 pm

Andy2012 wrote:I suggest making an engineer unit with a truck (if you have one) the rearguard and lay mines in the city. This way, you wont lose the supply so fast. Generally, after you held the mouth of the pass as a secondary, run. Go for the Northwest along the road, capture the small city in the west (relieves supply problems) and then go for the north-west. You shouldnt loiter anywhere. Next few missions get substantially easier.
Thanks, just finished the scenario. I did as you suggested and mined the city, and as matter of fact the enemy never even took the main city of Kawkareik, nor its airfield. (Although, they encircled the city, making its supplies useless anyway.) I think it's because of the mines I layed. The city looked like this after I was done with it:

Image

The AI never dared to take clear up the mines for some reason.

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