Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

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Oleksandr
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Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Oleksandr » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:59 pm

I can see that after 5.2.9 update tanks are now slower than regular infantry (regular infantry has 6 movement points, and tanks only 4 or 5 in general). Also, truck upgrades for infantry are much less useful now. May I ask what was the reason for this change?

UPDATE: ok, so I can see that tanks can actually move farther than infantry, although they have less movement points. Now I'm wondering, how does system work in general and what do the movement points mean now?

Mojko
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Mojko » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:31 pm

See this thread for more info.
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PoorOldSpike
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by PoorOldSpike » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:36 pm

Oleksandr wrote:...how does system work in general and what do the movement points mean now?
If you'd care to step into my laboratory for a moment, here's a 5.2.9 experiment I conducted that may interest you..
I placed a US Infantry '44 unit (stats speed rating 6) on a paved road and another on open ground,
and I placed 2 Sherman M4A1's likewise (stats speed rating 4), one on a paved road and the other on open ground.
Then I moved them all due north to see how many hexes they'd cover in one turn and logged the results.
I don't understand the exact mathematics (different terrain types soak up some of a units movement speed allowance) but it seems to make sense, namely we should get on a road to eat up the most distance..:)

Image

Oleksandr
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Oleksandr » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:57 am

Thanks, PoorOldSpike. So, as far as I understand, terrain modifiers work differently for different types of units. So direct comparison of movement points for different types of units doesn't work. Well, at least tanks are still faster than infantry :D Somewhat...

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:21 pm

More movement tests-

Image

Image

Oleksandr
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Oleksandr » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:55 pm

Well, I might say we have at least some sort of consistency here. And these numbers are logical. Except that I would expect tanks to move faster on roads (although one can argue that driving a tank for one hour vs a poor GI walking is very much different from moving a tank battalion vs infantry battalion in a days work).

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Oleksandr wrote:..I would expect tanks to move faster on roads...
Yes, on paved roads infantry sprinting fast for a turn or two before tiring and having to slow down to walking pace would be the way to go (as in many other tactical games), but in OOB the infantry never get tired and never slow down!
For example in a test I moved US Inf '43 up and down a paved road for 10 turns and they were sprinting the whole way fresh as daisies, covering 6 hexes per turn at exactly the same speed as M4A1's!
However, dirt roads slowed the infantry down a bit, I ran a dirt rd test and they covered only 4 hexes compared to the Shermans 6 hexes..:)
PS- For the record Heavy infantry and Engineers are always slower than regular inf because of the extra equipment they have to lug about, for example they can only cover 4 hexes on a paved road compared to regular inf's 6 hexes.

Andy2012
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:14 pm

Realism is important, but making it to accurate would potentially break too many missions and balancing generally. With all the stuff in the pipeline, let's not open too many cans of worms right now. This would have to be tested extensively. (I remember the outcrys after the latest arty adaption. Mine included.)

Oleksandr
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Oleksandr » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:26 pm

Indeed, as they say "better is the enemy of good". I am playing blitzkrieg at the moment, and I like the balance and how the missions play out so far :D

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:27 pm

Andy2012 wrote:..With all the stuff in the pipeline, let's not open too many cans of worms right now..
Agreed, I've been computer gaming for 35 years and I've never, ever, seen a game that's 100% perfect, so I've learned to live with their little quirks.
Same as if you've got an eccentric girlfriend, if she's absolutely beautiful you can overlook the fact that she's a bit wacko..:)

bru888
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by bru888 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:02 pm

A quick note of thanks for your efforts, Spike. Good stuff.
- Bru

Mojko
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Mojko » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:07 pm

You can view how many tiles can each unit move on any terrain the Unit Navigator tool. Just select "terrain" button on any unit and you will see all the data. The comparison mode allows you to compare movement types as well. Road factor is available as well if you hover over terrain type with mouse cursor.
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:35 pm

bru888 wrote:A quick note of thanks for your efforts, Spike. Good stuff.
Thanks mate, charts and tables like the Unit Navigator Tool are also very useful, and my trademark "hands on" approach around the wargame community over the years supplements them by being absolutely bang up to the minute like the 5.2.9 movement tests I did today.
It's the same when I browse dating websites, the womens pictures and descriptions might sound great on paper, but I won't know for sure til I get my hands on them for some rigorous testing..:)

Mojko
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Re: Tanks are slower than infantry in 5.2.9

Post by Mojko » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:29 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:It's the same when I browse dating websites, the womens pictures and descriptions might sound great on paper, but I won't know for sure til I get my hands on them for some rigorous testing..:)
Fair enough, so my overall advice on best movement types is:

- tracked movement type for vehicles
- ski movement type for infantry

These two movement types are overall best in all climates. It's a shame that it's not possible to see this information in game though :(
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

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