Friendly Fire

The Cylons have rebelled. The alliance of the Twelve Colonies falters. Take control of the Colonial Fleet and save humanity from an endless war.
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Asap
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Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:02 am

First I have to say, that "Battlestar Galactica Deadlock" is a great game, I love it. However, in version 1.0.9 I have noticed, that Vipers cause damage to a ship, when they intercept missiles close behind it and I think, that is still the case. Guided missiles, yes, guided, end up in my own ships regularly, if I am not carefully in using them. I guess, that it's the same with all the ship-guns, they don't stop firing if a friendly unit crosses the line of fire. All these weapon-systems should be a lot smarter, it doesn't feel right as it is right now. Guided missiles should avoid friendly vessels, turrets and Vipers should stop firing, as soon as a friendly unit is crossing their line of fire.
"The sun is new each day" Heraclitus

Rosseau
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Rosseau » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:31 am

Just bought the game and was wondering about that. I'm lucky not to ram my own ships, so dodging fire would add a level of complexity. I assume this won't happen if the firing ship and target are higher and your ship is lower in the vertical.

Wondering if you have/recommend the two DLCs as well?

Thanks

Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:57 am

Rosseau wrote:Just bought the game and was wondering about that. I'm lucky not to ram my own ships, so dodging fire would add a level of complexity. I assume this won't happen if the firing ship and target are higher and your ship is lower in the vertical.

Wondering if you have/recommend the two DLCs as well?

Thanks
Of course I recommend the game, I have the "Reinforcement Pack" and "The Broken Alliance" DLC. I hope, that the developers will change some things, when it comes to friendly fire, that would be really great. The game is complex, every turn you have to check a lot, that's time consuming, so, it would be very helpful, if you wouldn't have to worry about friendly fire. :)
"The sun is new each day" Heraclitus

Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:31 pm

In this screenshot you can see the Artemis, the ship wasn't hit by anything from the enemy. The damage you can see, was only caused by its own Vipers, busy with intercepting missiles and torpedoes behind it.
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Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:13 pm

Another screenshot of Vipers causing damage to the backside of an Adamant, this was short before torpedo impact.
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Poliorcetes
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Poliorcetes » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:19 am

Yup, seems to be part of the game. Which means in some cases you can hide behind asteroids. Ship debris I am less certain on, they seem "real" for the first turn after a ship breaks apart but after that they become intangible (or at least the hit box shrinks compared to the visual representation). I assume they block fire while 'real" but I never spent the time to sort out if they blocked fire once they become background .

Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:03 pm

Poliorcetes wrote:Yup, seems to be part of the game. Which means in some cases you can hide behind asteroids. Ship debris I am less certain on, they seem "real" for the first turn after a ship breaks apart but after that they become intangible (or at least the hit box shrinks compared to the visual representation). I assume they block fire while 'real" but I never spent the time to sort out if they blocked fire once they become background .
The topic is "Friendly Fire", which means, that your own units harm each other. It has nothing to do with any ship debris or hiding behind asteroids and if you ask me, friendly fire shouldn't be part of this game. :)
"The sun is new each day" Heraclitus

SiegeRollout
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by SiegeRollout » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:46 pm

Asap wrote:First I have to say, that "Battlestar Galactica Deadlock" is a great game, I love it. However, in version 1.0.9 I have noticed, that Vipers cause damage to a ship, when they intercept missiles close behind it and I think, that is still the case. Guided missiles, yes, guided, end up in my own ships regularly, if I am not carefully in using them. I guess, that it's the same with all the ship-guns, they don't stop firing if a friendly unit crosses the line of fire. All these weapon-systems should be a lot smarter, it doesn't feel right as it is right now. Guided missiles should avoid friendly vessels, turrets and Vipers should stop firing, as soon as a friendly unit is crossing their line of fire.
I've been playing since the first release, and FF damage has always been a part of the game. I think it makes the gameplay more realistic. Recall, it was also a large part of the TV show as well, e.g. vipers taking flak damage from Galactica.

When using guided missiles, the "athwart ship" firing arc can definitely strike a nearby capital ship before the missile arcs to its intended target. Use formations & elevations wisely, or time your turns, and you can avoid FF hits. With torpedoes that fire directly at the target, less likely to hit friendlies without the firing arc.

If a Viper is chasing a missile and flying directly at the cap ship its protecting, it's realistic that the Viper's ammo could cause light damage to the cap ship it's protecting. Better than the missile hitting your ship IMHO.

Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:10 pm

SiegeRollout wrote:I've been playing since the first release, and FF damage has always been a part of the game. I think it makes the gameplay more realistic. Recall, it was also a large part of the TV show as well, e.g. vipers taking flak damage from Galactica.

When using guided missiles, the "athwart ship" firing arc can definitely strike a nearby capital ship before the missile arcs to its intended target. Use formations & elevations wisely, or time your turns, and you can avoid FF hits. With torpedoes that fire directly at the target, less likely to hit friendlies without the firing arc.

If a Viper is chasing a missile and flying directly at the cap ship its protecting, it's realistic that the Viper's ammo could cause light damage to the cap ship it's protecting. Better than the missile hitting your ship IMHO.
Flak is a different story. Missiles should be able to dodge, if there is enough time to do so and just imagine, you couldn't fire a missile because a friendly unit is nearby, crossing its way. A so far advanced civilization, should be able to develop amazing weapon systems and missiles, in every way, don't you think? Same for the regular ship guns.
Now to the Vipers, I know the TV-show very well, I have it all on DVD and I can't remember any dumb Viper pilots causing massive damage to Galactica or any other ship of the fleet. It's only smart pilots doing an excellent job, wouldn't you agree?
A Viper can change its angle of fire easily and aim at rockets or other targets so, that no friendly unit gets harmed.
Especially the friendly fire of the Vipers is an absolute no go, in my opinion. I would execute pilots who try to shoot down their own ship.
You see, I'm all in for awesome improvements.
So Say We All!
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by SiegeRollout » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:35 pm

Asap wrote:
SiegeRollout wrote:I've been playing since the first release, and FF damage has always been a part of the game. I think it makes the gameplay more realistic. Recall, it was also a large part of the TV show as well, e.g. vipers taking flak damage from Galactica.

When using guided missiles, the "athwart ship" firing arc can definitely strike a nearby capital ship before the missile arcs to its intended target. Use formations & elevations wisely, or time your turns, and you can avoid FF hits. With torpedoes that fire directly at the target, less likely to hit friendlies without the firing arc.

If a Viper is chasing a missile and flying directly at the cap ship its protecting, it's realistic that the Viper's ammo could cause light damage to the cap ship it's protecting. Better than the missile hitting your ship IMHO.
Flak is a different story. Missiles should be able to dodge, if there is enough time to do so and just imagine, you couldn't fire a missile because a friendly unit is nearby, crossing its way. A so far advanced civilization, should be able to develop amazing weapon systems and missiles, in every way, don't you think? Same for the regular ship guns.
Now to the Vipers, I know the TV-show very well, I have it all on DVD and I can't remember any dumb Viper pilots causing massive damage to Galactica or any other ship of the fleet. It's only smart pilots doing an excellent job, wouldn't you agree?
A Viper can change its angle of fire easily and aim at rockets or other targets so, that no friendly unit gets harmed.
Especially the friendly fire of the Vipers is an absolute no go, in my opinion. I would execute pilots who try to shoot down their own ship.
You see, I'm all in for awesome improvements.
So Say We All!
"For Fraks sake, stay out of Galactica's firing solution!!!!!!!"
Clearly implies that pilots can, and easily do, make mistakes like straying into a flak zone. How many times in the show did they make fun of nuggets for making simple mistakes? Also keep in mind the "stone age" computers on both Galactica & Vipers, kept intentionally simplistic to avoid Cylon hacking.

While I agree that a strafing run of Viper bullets is unlikely to cause heavy damage to a heavily armored cap ship like a Jupiter class, hit any sensitive area like a gun emplacement, missile silo, RCS thruster, etc. and you could cause damage. And again citing my earlier example, and the one cited by someone else, you have a squadron tasked to defend a cap ship where Cylons have fired a missile salvo of 8 guided missiles. Even Starbuck, arguably the best Viper pilot in the series, couldnt shoot down all 3 slower moving nukes in the pilot episode. Had she been chasing the missile (turkey) towards Galactica, she'd have been firing continuously trying to hit the target. Those bullets would have hit Galactica, not because she's a frakin moron, but because missiles are tough to hit. I'm sure Adama would have gladly traded a a few bullet hits along the flight pod versus a warhead explosion. Same if a squadron is engaging a Cylon Heavy Raider trying to board a cap ship....the commander would much rather patch up some bullet holes than dead with a boarding party of Centurions.

Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:08 am

SiegeRollout wrote:"For Fraks sake, stay out of Galactica's firing solution!!!!!!!"
Clearly implies that pilots can, and easily do, make mistakes like straying into a flak zone. How many times in the show did they make fun of nuggets for making simple mistakes? Also keep in mind the "stone age" computers on both Galactica & Vipers, kept intentionally simplistic to avoid Cylon hacking.

While I agree that a strafing run of Viper bullets is unlikely to cause heavy damage to a heavily armored cap ship like a Jupiter class, hit any sensitive area like a gun emplacement, missile silo, RCS thruster, etc. and you could cause damage. And again citing my earlier example, and the one cited by someone else, you have a squadron tasked to defend a cap ship where Cylons have fired a missile salvo of 8 guided missiles. Even Starbuck, arguably the best Viper pilot in the series, couldnt shoot down all 3 slower moving nukes in the pilot episode. Had she been chasing the missile (turkey) towards Galactica, she'd have been firing continuously trying to hit the target. Those bullets would have hit Galactica, not because she's a frakin moron, but because missiles are tough to hit. I'm sure Adama would have gladly traded a a few bullet hits along the flight pod versus a warhead explosion. Same if a squadron is engaging a Cylon Heavy Raider trying to board a cap ship....the commander would much rather patch up some bullet holes than dead with a boarding party of Centurions.
Vipers who cause damage to colony ships or battlestars, were no part of the show. We have to agree to disagree here.
Imagine what US pilots would have done to their ships during WW2, with your understanding of intercepting. They would have lost whole fleets.
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by MVP7 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:53 pm

Vipers are harmless little rascals when it comes to friendly fire. I had my worst incident when a heavy raider squadron flew past my battle line towards the Daidalos. Three battlestars, a gunship and a heavy carrier fired their broadsides at the heavy raiders and took Daidalose's hull down to half in a single turn with the misses before the raiders were finally destroyed. That was the closest I ever was to losing Daidalos in the entire campaign.

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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by SiegeRollout » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:50 pm

Vipers who cause damage to colony ships or battlestars, were no part of the show. We have to agree to disagree here.
Imagine what US pilots would have done to their ships during WW2, with your understanding of intercepting. They would have lost whole fleets.
S1, Ep2, Apollo & Starbuck destroy the Olympic Carrier with only a few rounds fired.
S4, Ep1, a VIper is chasing a Raider which causes the Raider to crash into & destroy Pixis (sp?)

Also, your comparison to WW2 is not really applicable.

In the near vacuum of space, a bullet fired loses almost none of its velocity once fired, regardless of distance. At sea level, atmospheric friction, water vapor, and wind will all rapidly slow down and/or change the vector of a bullet. Tiny caliber bullets fired using chemical propellant from a WW2 fighter designed to penetrate armour only a few cm thick hardly compare to the energy of a mag-accelerated Viper projectile that's easily 10x more massive, and several times faster ( K=1/2mV^2 adds up quick!!!)

In WW2, there were no guided missiles for friendly fighters to intercept. Interceptor fighters wouldnt have engaged enemy fighters at any close range to a cruiser/carrier, as they'd be thousands of feet up attempting to to intercept dive bombers, or shooting downwards to get a kill shot on a torpedo bomber. In neither case would friendly machine gun fire be aimed at your own ships. That said, more than a few kills were made by fighters engaging cruisers & destroyers without fighter escort, but it had to be done at near point blank range to penetrate even the thin armor of a cruiser.

Asap
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Asap » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:08 am

SiegeRollout wrote: S1, Ep2, Apollo & Starbuck destroy the Olympic Carrier with only a few rounds fired.
S4, Ep1, a VIper is chasing a Raider which causes the Raider to crash into & destroy Pixis (sp?)
That is not friendly fire. :shock:
I am talking about Vipers causing damage to their own ships with their bord weapons and this happens, because this game is programmed that way, terrible intercepting skills.
My comparison between World War II pilots and the Viper pilots of the BSG show, is more than valid (USS Laffey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrHE2FoVg1g).
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Re: Friendly Fire

Post by Banzai888 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:00 am

I'm pro Friendly Fire, life isn't fair. Adds to the chaotic war vibe.

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