Ukrainian volunteers?

PSP/DS/PC/MAC : WWII turn based grand strategy game

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Irlandos
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Ukrainian volunteers?

Post by Irlandos » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:22 pm

The Germans get Spanish, Low Countries, Croatian, etc. volunteer units but I see no western Ukrainians coming to their aid.
To make the game more historically accurate, could these be added in a future update?

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Ukrainian volunteers?

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:38 am

Development on GS v4.0 has ended so there are no plans to make changes, We will monitor playing and fix something that is broken.

When it comes to German volunteers we get one per year in July. So there is a limit to how many units we can add. So we decided on:
1940: Volunteer Standarte NW
1941: Spanish Blue
1942: 1st Croatian
1943: SS Wiking and Nordland
1944: SS Charlemagne

Ukraine contributed with some forces and the most significant was SS division "Galizien". This happened in 1943. In 1944 the Galizien division was formed into the 14 Waffen SS grenadier division.

We usually have contributors from many different countries in the Axis volunteers units in GS. This is because the game is corps sized, while the contributor units were division sized or smaller.

Since the Ukrainians fought on the east front you can consider the Galizien division to be in a way part of the SS Wiking and Nordland even though they didn't fight together.

SS Wiking and Nordland is a panzergrenadier corps in GS. SS Wiking panzer division and SS Nordland panzergrenadier division were both division sized so they were a division short to be a corps. A typical German corps consisted of 3 divisions. So you can consider the SS division Galizien to be incorporated in that unit. That suits the time frame the unit arrived (1943) and also the front they fought even though the Galizien division fought mostly in the Ukraine and south eastern Poland. Nordland fought further north closer to Leningrad like in Estonia. Wiking fought from the start of Barbarossa and were in battles all over the front like in Izyum in Ukraine and Kursk. Then the unit was almost wiped out at Korsun in Ukraine and then the remnants were sent to Kovel in eastern Poland (now Belarus).

So you can definitely consider the Ukrainians to be part of the unit SS Wiking and Nordland. Maybe you can try renaming it to SS Wiking Nordland Galizien

JyriErik
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Re: Ukrainian volunteers?

Post by JyriErik » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:30 pm

Not to pick nits, but Wiking was only part of the III SS Panzerkorps when it was first organized. It took part in training operations, but when the corps went to battle at Narva it was made up of 11 SS Nordland and 20 SS Estnische divisions, 4 SS Brigade Netherland & 103 SS Schwere panzer battalion. Later the 23 SS Nederland & 27 SS Langemarck divisions were added. The other units that were part of it were all considered "Germanic/Nordic", so adding the Slavic Galizien would be a bit out of place.

Considering that the number of French volunteers only totaled an estimeted 20,000, not sure if they deserve an entire corps (seeing as how the Latvians get no mention, but an estimated 80,000 served the Germans in WW II). Maybe change Charlemagne to an amalgam of the Vlasov Army, Ukrainians, Latvians, Romanians, Hungarians & Italians that were conscripted in the last year of the war?

Jyri

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Ukrainian volunteers?

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:48 pm

Here is info about the III (Germanic) SS Panzer Corps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/III_(Germ ... nzer_Corps

Here you see it started as a headquarters for SS DIvisions Wiking and Nordland. It was later joined by 23rd SS Panzergrenadier division Nederland. Then SS WIking was sent south and split.

Anyway the name III (Germanic) SS Panzer corps would have been a bad name to use in GS since the term Germanic would be linked to German and thus German counters would be used. So it was better to use the components of the corps as name. The code can then check for Wiking and designate that for the Norwegian counter image.

Most volunteer units were smaller sized that corps, but the total could warrant adding a corps. So you have to pick a name, counter type and go with that. In GS we start the first volunteers as division sized (smaller contributions early in the war). So the Dutch Volunteer Standarte NW and Spanish Blue are garrison units (division sized). The others are corps sized since the contributions increased.

1st Croatian consists of units fighting in The Balkans. Mainly for anti partisan warfare. So the unit became a mountain unit.

https://www.feldgrau.com/WW2-Croatian-Axis-Forces

SS Wiking and Nordland consists of units fighting on the east front. Mainly linked to Army Group North. So the SS volunteers from the Baltic States are incorporated here. Also some Ukrainian volunteers. There this unit is a strong mechanized corps.

SS Charlemagne consists of volunteers arriving in 1944 all over Europe. Charlemagne was one name picked from many. SS Galizien from Ukraine could also have been considered. Same with the Latvian units. The unit is an infantry corps in GS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS ... pts#France

It doesn't really matter which names we use. Regardless of name choices some contributors will be omitted. What matters is how many reinforcements the Axis get from volunteers. Players can easily rename the counters if they want to.

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