Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

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Juansana
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Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by Juansana » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:17 pm

New bug Panzerkrieg -> Caucasus in version 7.1.4
Although I haven't taken an oil pump and Maikop yet, the scenario is shown as won after round 16. An error?
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Fehler OoB Kaukasus.jpg
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bru888
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bru888 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:54 pm

They've been having problems with this scenario since Panzerkrieg came out. What's in 7.14 now has been revised due to problems with the oil pumps but unfortunately, a couple of other bugs have crept in.

First, this trigger is not pointing to Maykop but to a town a few hexes to the west. It looks like you took that other hex, Juansana, and if you had the other two victory points, that is why this objective was completed before you got to Maykop:

Screenshot 2.jpg
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You can see that you only had one primary objective enabled at the time, so that was the end of the scenario. However, another primary objective is supposed to be activated at this point but there is another bug that prevents that other primary objective from being activated:

Screenshot 3.jpg
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Screenshot 5.jpg
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I will report this in the bug database but it may be too late to be included in the upcoming patch. Thanks for reporting.
- Bru

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:28 am

bru888 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:54 pm
[...] but unfortunately, a couple of other bugs have crept in.

First, this trigger is not pointing to Maykop but to a town a few hexes to the west. It looks like you took that other hex, Juansana, and if you had the other two victory points, that is why this objective was completed before you got to Maykop:
Bruce, reading this makes my blood boil again, and once more I understand your burst-outs with frustration regarding posts with bug reports and nothing being done about them. This was reported for the first time in December 2017, then again multiple times by myself, Cool and others in the course of this year: see the Current Bugs - Version 6.1.9 thread, the second post (from July).

Also, you may have noticed the "Minsk" scenario bug report in the same post - but it was only after being entered in the BugDB (Bug #3870), that this has been fixed in the v715.

I'll try to calm down now... all the bug reports I've written were not all for naught... this was all in the past... all in the past... :?

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bru888 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:30 pm

Heh, my turn to wave a towel in your face, Gabe. :)

It is in the past. Now we have this bug database which seems to be working.

I don't know and I have stopped speculating as to what happened here with The Artistocrats in the past couple of years. There is one guy who is the mastermind, as we know. For some reason a while back, he decided to stop communicating in the forum which was not good because he is the one who fixes things, at least with the basic game. (He would also be the one to get after the guest designers to debug their scenarios and campaigns.)

As far as I know, there are only three Artistocrats. One guy, whose forum name starts with M, I think, you never hear from at all. Bebro has stepped up recently, which is appreciated, but he is not the go-to-guy. You can see that he defers to Mr. X. Slitherine people like Shards and Adam are merely facilitators, also appreciated but limited.

So, for whatever reason Mr. X. decided to retire from his customer base, shyness, boredom, disillusionment, whatever, and that is why the game has been suffering with all of these unexterminated bugs up until now. That, and somebody needs to take a forensic approach to their output. Asking a dozen guys to play through scenarios once in beta does not catch many bugs. They need to sit down and go through it, line by line, trigger by trigger.

That's probably not going to happen. Therefore, for all of these reasons, this bug database could be the answer. We have already seen a very long list of stuff that is fixed (hopefully) for the upcoming 7.1.5 patch.

Stick with the process and give it time to work, my friend. We don't want to see a Deja Gabe around here. :wink:
- Bru

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:15 pm

bru888 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:30 pm
So, for whatever reason Mr. X. decided to retire from his customer base, shyness, boredom, disillusionment, whatever, and that is why the game has been suffering with all of these unexterminated bugs up until now. That, and somebody needs to take a forensic approach to their output. Asking a dozen guys to play through scenarios once in beta does not catch many bugs. They need to sit down and go through it, line by line, trigger by trigger.
Agree, beta should be to get some feedback on playability and balance, maybe to catch some bugs that are bound to happen with many different PC configurations, but yeah, the lack of real QM is noticeable.

Actually, with many scenarios you and I have done exactly that, a forensic approach, and look how many things were found by us, "amateurs", alone.
bru888 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:30 pm
Stick with the process and give it time to work, my friend. We don't want to see a Deja Gabe around here. :wink:
:lol: No worries, I'm quick to explode but quick to calm down, too. This game's just too much fun to give up on. I'm actually in a good mood, the BugDB and v715 beta both seem to be going well, it's not being overcrowded with personal change requests and such, mostly serious bugs/issues.

As you know, on the one hand, the lack of communication from the devs was the cause of frustration and some more-or-less angry postings here on the forum. At times it was like talking to the wind, and having no idea if someone actually read anything or not.

But, on the other hand, which I find more disappointing is the missed opportunity of the player's community to discuss ideas with the devs directly. I had many questions about the single player AI for example - and ideas how to optimize its behaviour. So many times doing stupid things for no obvious reasons. Units not resting and repairing although having enough RP and opportunity, moving in transports way too close to the enemy, planes landing directly next to enemy units, AT-units leading attacks on entrenched infantry positions, etc etc etc....some ideas may have been stupid or not viable, but who's better suited for the devs to discuss these topics with other than the ones actually (excessively) playing (and thus analyzing) the game?

Oh well, and again we're waaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.... :D

CoolDTA
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by CoolDTA » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:43 pm

Deja Gabe and Deja Bru running amok in the forums... the horror! :shock:

:wink:

What I find rather annoying is how people like you two do all the work by showing what is wrong, why it is wrong and how it can be fixed and still it all is completely disregarded. :? Bru's second post (and in fact all his marvellous work here) is a prime example of this. Maybe and hopefully all will be changed for the better now that we have the BugBD, but I'll remain sceptical until I see the results.

And I wonder what is the status of "no reward for saving the 6th Army" -bug in Panzerkrieg.

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bru888 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:17 pm

There's an old saying in English about "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink." Frankly, I would volunteer to do the forensics work in beta, for free, but the exasperating thing the last time I did so was spending hours on the project, being thanked, but being ignored for the most part. Not that they would need to adopt everything I recommended - far from it - but to address each one and either do it because it's obvious and simple or say why it shouldn't/couldn't be done. To have to keep bumping my own beta thread for attention was embarrassing. The ultimate problem, it appears to me, is that the work ethic is not there.
- Bru

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bru888 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:34 pm

Want proof of what I just said? Here is a picture of the post that I made in beta, over a year ago, about the very same problem of the Maykop victory point hex. Nobody paid attention to it, as was probably the case with most of what I said in that thread.

Image0130a.jpg
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- Bru

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by CoolDTA » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Bru, I don't need any evidence from you, because I trust your word. :) What you said just makes me wonder what's behind such a behaviour. Maybe it is the lack of work ethic, maybe something else. It probably will remain a mystery forever. But it is puzzling: a very trustworthy person (in this case you) does an excellent work by diligently debugging a dlc for free and is pretty much promptly disregarded. Most would greatly appreciate and use such help and for this kind of niche game even more so, but nooo. Well, there's the Bug DB now, so let's wait and see.

GabeKnight
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:46 pm

CoolDTA wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:43 pm
Maybe and hopefully all will be changed for the better now that we have the BugBD, but I'll remain sceptical until I see the results.
Agree on the "sceptical" part, but so far it's really looking good. Everything's going as promised. The new beta build is being tested right now.
CoolDTA wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:43 pm
And I wonder what is the status of "no reward for saving the 6th Army" -bug in Panzerkrieg.
It was reworked with the v714 already, but I haven't tested it myself. Currently I'm replaying the Sandstorm DLC, and planning to go with the new Endsieg build right after that.
bru888 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:17 pm
Frankly, I would volunteer to do the forensics work in beta, for free, but the exasperating thing the last time I did so was spending hours on the project, being thanked, but being ignored for the most part.
Yeah, I've read some of the reports you've done with the beta. I've done similar - but by far less detailed - forensics with the Sandstorm beta. Luckily, uran incorporated (almost) all corrections I've proposed, so I've been spared the "disillusioned" feeling you might have experienced.
I'm about middle through with Sandstorm and besides a couple of spelling errors, everything worked flawlessly (scenario-wise :wink: ).

Still, the general situation led to my "resignation" at some point. You may have noticed that I began posting "fixed" scens in the scenario subforum myself, cause I've got tired of being ignored. But....I'm quite optimistic at the moment TBH.
bru888 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:17 pm
To have to keep bumping my own beta thread for attention was embarrassing. The ultimate problem, it appears to me, is that the work ethic is not there.
You know, not every parent loves their children. It may seem absurd that "strangers" care more about the "baby" than the creators, but it's not unseen... :wink:

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by CoolDTA » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:05 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:46 pm
CoolDTA wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:43 pm
And I wonder what is the status of "no reward for saving the 6th Army" -bug in Panzerkrieg.
It was reworked with the v714 already, but I haven't tested it myself. Currently I'm replaying the Sandstorm DLC, and planning to go with the new Endsieg build right after that.
Ah, okay - thanks for the remainder :) - but nothing is said of the issue in the patch notes (v7.1.4) and apparently no one (?) has actually played the dlc after the patch release so it may still be there or not.

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:08 pm

CoolDTA wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:05 pm
Ah, okay - thanks for the remainder :) - but nothing is said of the issue in the patch notes (v7.1.4) and apparently no one (?) has actually played the dlc after the patch release so it may still be there or not.
You volunteering? Wasn't there a saying: One for all and... I forgot the rest... :wink: :mrgreen:

New community content with the next update:

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CoolDTA
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by CoolDTA » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:12 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:08 pm
You volunteering? Wasn't there a saying: One for all and... I forgot the rest... :wink: :mrgreen:

New community content with the next update:
Nooooooo! :shock: :lol: At least for now. Besides, my next "project" will likely be POE2 Deadfire now that all the DLCs have been released. :)

Re. new community content: that evacuation was a disaster...

bebro
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bebro » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:53 pm

Hm, I hope I do not disturb this party too much.

However, thx indeed for the heads up to the OP. And for those bits in the replies that are actually helpful.

And no, I don't have a prob when people point out bugs. I could do with a bit less of drama and speculations, but maybe that's just further proof that the devs are up to no good here ... ;)

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:47 pm

bebro wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:53 pm
Hm, I hope I do not disturb this party too much.

However, thx indeed for the heads up to the OP. And for those bits in the replies that are actually helpful.

And no, I don't have a prob when people point out bugs. I could do with a bit less of drama and speculations, but maybe that's just further proof that the devs are up to no good here ... ;)
People are people and there always will be gossip and speculations. But you know how it is, people listen to those who speak and not those remaining silent.

But maybe we've just started out on the wrong foot. Then let me ask you this: In what way would you have liked the bugs (and possible solution to those) to have been presented to you? Those bugs in Panzerkrieg were reported multiple times in different forums since the release - and I'm not talking about change requests for some availability dates here, but objectives not working right. So posting in separate threads and with pictures didn't seem to attract enough attention. Same thing seemed to be the case with the "collection" threads like the "current issues" / "current bugs" threads.
Are you saying there was no such thing as the BugDB before? Like an Excel sheet with the bugs listed or something like this for internal use? I know there were bugfixes done continuously to OoB. So how did you pick which to fix and which not? And why wasn't this bug with Caucasus and the 6th army been fixed a long time ago?

Sorry if it may sound like I'm overreacting a bit, this is not supposed to be a personal attack. But I'm with you all over a year now, so don't tell me I'm imagining things.

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bru888 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:38 am

And I've been here almost three years, and try telling me that I am imagining things. Instead of arrogantly dismissing our concerns, why not try addressing them? Where, point by point, are we wrong in what we said, Bebro? Educate us, please. Then explain why, when bugs were pointed out IN BETA, they were not fixed.

The point is, things are only shaping up here now perhaps, after a year or two of malaise. Don't tell me hiring guest designers to make DLC's is all there is to managing a successful franchise. Those new items in the Community Crate will be the first since I have been around. The next thing you should look to do is to update the Online News, which is still talking about Sandstorm. Then think about updating the game manual, which is still titled OOB Pacific and does not talk about how specialisations are done now, how naval warfare was changed, and how cores can now be imported.

No, instead you come by with a sarcastic comment and dismiss the people who are trying to help you make the game better. It's sad, really; OOB could be so much better than it is already, and that's saying something.
- Bru

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by bebro » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:35 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:47 pm
People are people and there always will be gossip and speculations.
Sure. Doesn't make everything a good point though, or something that others have to leave unanswered.
bru888 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:38 am
No, instead you come by with a sarcastic comment and dismiss the people who are trying to help you make the game better. It's sad, really; OOB could be so much better than it is already, and that's saying something.
I didn't "dismiss" people. But those parts of the replies that I regard as not helpful.

Yabby69
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by Yabby69 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:50 am

Hey I'm running v 8.1.0 and I've experienced a slightly different bug. I've captured all 3 victory hexes, plus what appears to be the capture point mentioned towards the top of this thread, that was the target hex instead of Maykop (the town called "Khanskaya").

The primary victory conditions should have now been triggered, but something has gone wrong. I also captured Matkop (and Khanskaya) by Turn 25, yet the secondary victory condition didn't trigger. It's as if neither of these hexes are valid targets any more!


https://youtu.be/0TUm1FfGV2M

GabeKnight
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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:50 pm

I'm not sure right now, but wasn't the early victory condition removed for some reason?
I think you have to go the whole nine yards and play 'till scenario end.

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Re: Panzerkrieg Caucasus Bugs

Post by Yabby69 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:43 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:50 pm
I'm not sure right now, but wasn't the early victory condition removed for some reason?
I think you have to go the whole nine yards and play 'till scenario end.
Thank you, yes you are correct, I had to play until turn 34/34, the Soviets took their final turn then the Victory screen appeared on Turn 35/34.

The campaign has successfully progressed to the next mission and I'm only a handful of RP worse off, as there wasn't much resistance left on the map at that point anyway.

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