Banners

stockwellpete
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:50 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:06 am
With regard to this, I think it would be sensible if they did all share the same folder. Or at least, groups of related scenarios could share a folder.
I am a bit uncertain about "folders" in this context. I have just been experimenting with the editor. I notice at the very start of the process for creating a scenario you have to type in the "Campaign folder name". Normally I just put the name of the battle here, but presumably I could put something like "Anglo-Saxon Britain" and then put the name of the battle in the box on the next line called "Campaign name". Then when I start to create a second scenario I would open the "Anglo-Saxon Britain" folder and click on "new scenario". Eventually, I suppose that I could have any number of scenarios in the "Anglo-Saxon Britain" folder? Is this what you mean? If it is, what are the advantages of doing this? Presumably certain values included in one scenario are automatically given to the other scenarios in the folder? Which values are transferable in this way? Modded battle banners seem to be. Anything else? Given that I have done 8 scenarios separately at the moment is it possible to put them into a folder now? If so, how would I do this? Is it a simple cut and paste job?

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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:58 am

Paul59 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:21 pm
As long as the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Irish use the standard sidenames and numbers the banners will work.

Are all these scenarios going to share the same folder? If not, you will need to paste my Data and BannerSideIDs.txt into the new folder.

I have not provided you with flags for the Welsh yet. Will the Welsh scenarios be in a seperate scenario folder? What banner colour were you thinking of? The two TT Mod Welsh banners are red and green, both decorated with an ornate golden Celtic cross.

There are other suitable TT Mod flags for the smaller Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. The ones I am thinking of are:

Blue with a boar design
Purple and Cream with a raven design
Green and Cream with a raven design
Red and Cream with a raven design
Yellow with a longboat design

There maybe a few others, such as the more Christian designs I use for the sub Romans.

You just need to let me know what sidenumbers you will use for these kingdoms, and what banners you want them to have.
Paul, I will get back to you about this. My idea is to do a series of scenarios (anything up to 20 of them) to depict the history of Britain (roughly) from 410 AD to 1016 AD. Today, I will try and compile a list of the scenarios that I am most likely to do and give the main armies fighting these battles so that we know how many factions we are actually talking about. All those flags you have listed sound great. The battles involving the Welsh will probably not be in a separate folder as the Welsh were either in alliance with, or at war with, the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms for much of the period.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:42 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:50 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:06 am
With regard to this, I think it would be sensible if they did all share the same folder. Or at least, groups of related scenarios could share a folder.
I am a bit uncertain about "folders" in this context. I have just been experimenting with the editor. I notice at the very start of the process for creating a scenario you have to type in the "Campaign folder name". Normally I just put the name of the battle here, but presumably I could put something like "Anglo-Saxon Britain" and then put the name of the battle in the box on the next line called "Campaign name". Then when I start to create a second scenario I would open the "Anglo-Saxon Britain" folder and click on "new scenario". Eventually, I suppose that I could have any number of scenarios in the "Anglo-Saxon Britain" folder? Is this what you mean? If it is, what are the advantages of doing this? Presumably certain values included in one scenario are automatically given to the other scenarios in the folder? Which values are transferable in this way? Modded battle banners seem to be. Anything else? Given that I have done 8 scenarios separately at the moment is it possible to put them into a folder now? If so, how would I do this? Is it a simple cut and paste job?
The advantage to putting all the scenarios in one folder is that it makes things much easier to design. You just need to set up your custom unit and general names once, and then they can be reused in other scenarios without having to type it all in again. Any special graphics (including banners) can just be set up once, and they will be available for all scenarios. It also saves a lot of storage space, as the banner data might get quite large, especially if it has to be put into 8 or more different individual scenario folders. There are probably other advantages that I cannot think of right now.

Getting them all into one folder might now be a bit tricky though.

You would need to copy and paste the scenario .BAM and .BSF files into the SCENARIOS folder of the Anglo_Saxon Britain folder. That would be easy as the scenario names will all be different, so they will not overwrite each other.

The tricky bit is that all the individual scenarios would have their own Text1.txt and Text9.txt files. You would have to open these and copy the contents into the Anglo-Saxon Britain Text1.txt and Text9.txt files. That might be much harder than it sounds if you have multiple different IDS_CAMPAIGN_TEXTs, or if you have used custom unit and general names.

The solution in that case would be to write a new overall IDS_CAMPAIGN_TEXT, then copy and paste the old individual IDS_CAMPAIGN_TEXTs into the individual IDS_SCENARIO_DESCs. The custom unit and generals names would have to be redone from scratch.

If you create an overall Campaign/Scenario folder it should look like this when starting the Editor:

Image

Then you just create the different individual scenarios in the Editor.
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Re: Banners

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:42 am

What Paul said.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:32 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:58 am
Paul59 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:21 pm
As long as the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Irish use the standard sidenames and numbers the banners will work.

Are all these scenarios going to share the same folder? If not, you will need to paste my Data and BannerSideIDs.txt into the new folder.

I have not provided you with flags for the Welsh yet. Will the Welsh scenarios be in a seperate scenario folder? What banner colour were you thinking of? The two TT Mod Welsh banners are red and green, both decorated with an ornate golden Celtic cross.

There are other suitable TT Mod flags for the smaller Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. The ones I am thinking of are:

Blue with a boar design
Purple and Cream with a raven design
Green and Cream with a raven design
Red and Cream with a raven design
Yellow with a longboat design

There maybe a few others, such as the more Christian designs I use for the sub Romans.

You just need to let me know what sidenumbers you will use for these kingdoms, and what banners you want them to have.
Paul, I will get back to you about this. My idea is to do a series of scenarios (anything up to 20 of them) to depict the history of Britain (roughly) from 410 AD to 1016 AD. Today, I will try and compile a list of the scenarios that I am most likely to do and give the main armies fighting these battles so that we know how many factions we are actually talking about. All those flags you have listed sound great. The battles involving the Welsh will probably not be in a separate folder as the Welsh were either in alliance with, or at war with, the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms for much of the period.
Here is my current list. Those in bold and underlined are more or less done. Those in bold will be done in the near future and there are a few others of great interest to me.

Possible Battles for Scenarios

Aylesford 455 (Britons v Kent)
Badon c500 (Britons v Wessex)
Deorham 577 (Britons v Wessex)
Catraeth c600 (Gododdin v Northumbrians)
Degsastan 603 (Northumbrians v Dal Riata Gaels)
Chester 615/6 (Northumbrians v Welsh)
River Idle 616/7 (East Anglians v Northumbrians)
Cefn Digoli 630 (Northumbrians v Welsh)
Hatfield Chase 633 (Welsh v Northumbrians)
Heavenfield 634 (Northumbrians v Welsh)
Maserfeld 642 (Northumbrians v Welsh/Mercians)

Winwaed 655 (Northumbrians v Mercians)
Peonnum 660 (Britons v Wessex)
Trent 679 (Northumbrians v Mercians)
Hereford 760 (Mercians v Welsh)
Otford 776 (Mercians v Kent)
Bensington 779 (Mercians v Wessex)
Ellendun 825 (Mercians v Wessex)
Carhampton 836 (Wessex v Vikings)
Hingston Down 838 (Wessex v Vikings/Cornwall)
Aclea 851 (Wessex v Vikings)
Reading 871 (Wessex v Vikings)
Ashdown 871 (Wessex v Vikings)
Ethandun 878 (Wessex v Vikings)
Conwy 881 (Mercians v Welsh)
Tettenhall 910 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)
Islandbridge 919 (Irish v Vikings)
Brunanburh 937 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)
Sulcoit 968 (Irish v Vikings)
Tara 980 (Irish v Vikings)
Maldon 991 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)

Clontarf 1014 (Irish v Vikings)
Assandun 1016 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)

Here are all the factions contained within the scenarios and what little I know about their banners.

Flags
Anglo-Saxons - red/yellow/wyverns
Britons - unknown
Dal Riata Gaels - unknown
Gododdin - unknown
Irish – unknown, suggest green
Kent - unknown
Mercians – blue/yellow/cross
Northumbrians – red/gold/stripes
Vikings – white/black/raven
Welsh – red/white/green/dragon
Wessex – red/yellow/wyvern
Last edited by stockwellpete on Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:56 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Here is my current list. Those in bold and underlined are more or less done. Those in bold will be done in the near future and there are a few others of great interest to me.

Possible Battles for Scenarios

Aylesford 455 (Britons v Kent)
Badon c500 (Britons v Wessex)
Deorham 577 (Britons v Wessex)
Catraeth c600 (Gododdin v Northumbrians)
Degsastan 603 (Northumbrians v Dal Riata Gaels)
Chester 615/6 (Northumbrians v Welsh)
River Idle 616/7 (East Anglians v Northumbrians)
Cefn Digoli 630 (Northumbrians v Welsh)
Hatfield Chase 633 (Welsh v Northumbrians)
Heavenfield 634 (Northumbrians v Welsh)
Maserfeld 642 (Northumbrians v Welsh/Mercians)

Winwaed 655 (Northumbrians v Mercians)
Peonnum 660 (Britons v Wessex)
Trent 679 (Northumbrians v Mercians)
Hereford 760 (Mercians v Welsh)
Otford 776 (Mercians v Kent)
Bensington 779 (Mercians v Wessex)
Ellendun 825 (Mercians v Wessex)
Carhampton 836 (Wessex v Vikings)
Hingston Down 838 (Wessex v Vikings/Cornwall)
Aclea 851 (Wessex v Vikings)
Reading 871 (Wessex v Vikings)
Ashdown 871 (Wessex v Vikings)
Ethandun 878 (Wessex v Vikings)
Conwy 881 (Mercians v Welsh)
Tettenhall 910 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)
Islandbridge 919 (Irish v Vikings)
Brunanburh 937 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)
Sulcoit 968 (Irish v Vikings)
Tara 980 (Irish v Vikings)
Maldon 991 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)

Clontarf 1014 (Irish v Vikings)
Assandun 1016 (Anglo-Saxons v Vikings)

Here are all the factions contained within the scenarios and what little I know about their banners.

Flags
Anglo-Saxons - red/yellow/wyverns
Britons - unknown
Dal Riata Gaels - unknown
Gododdin - unknown
Irish – unknown, suggest green
Kent - unknown
Mercians – blue/yellow/cross
Northumbrians – red/gold/stripes
Vikings – white/black/raven
Welsh – red/white/green/dragon
Wessex – red/yellow/wyvern
Hi Pete,

For me to put together a comprehensive banner pack for you, I need to know what sidename numbers you are going to use for all these factions.

Obviously, many of these factions do not exist in the game (Wessex, Mercia etc), so you will have to rename existing factions. I explain how to do this in the first few paragraphs of this guide:

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 91&t=81328

Also, maybe some factions can share banners? For instance, can Wessex or Mercia share the Anglo-Saxon banner? That might cut down on the size of the banner pack.


cheers


Paul
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:35 pm

Hi Pete,

For me to put together a comprehensive banner pack for you, I need to know what sidename numbers you are going to use for all these factions.

Obviously, many of these factions do not exist in the game (Wessex, Mercia etc), so you will have to rename existing factions. I explain how to do this in the first few paragraphs of this guide:

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 91&t=81328

Also, maybe some factions can share banners? For instance, can Wessex or Mercia share the Anglo-Saxon banner? That might cut down on the size of the banner pack.


cheers


Paul
Thanks Paul. I didn't realise you could re-name existing factions. I was just asking Richard about that. That's excellent news. I will look at your guide this afternoon and then come up with a list of sidename numbers as soon as I can.

In terms of the banners - yes, some of the least used armies can share banners, but I think Mercia and Wessex should have separate banners because we do know what they looked like. The Wessex banner can certainly be used for the Anglo-Saxons after 900 AD. You sound as if you have the Welsh and Briton banners already done. So, of the others, to have the striped red/gold Northumbrian banner would be really great. With the Vikings you could, perhaps, have 2 banners, one for the Vikings (Danes) in England and one for the Vikings (Norse) in Ireland. I notice that you have raven and longboat symbols designed already. Maybe a black flag with a white longboat design would do for one of the Viking flags and then a black flag with a white or yellow raven for the other? Just an idea anyway. I have no idea how much work might be involved doing these so just one Viking flag would be fine.

So that just leaves the Dal Riatans, Gododdin, Irish and Kent. I think the Gododdin can share a Briton flag and the Dal Riatans can share the Irish banner (plain emerald green perhaps) and Kent can use one of the standard ones already in the game if I do get round to doing one of their two battles on my list.

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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:16 pm

Paul,

Here are the army sidenumbers that I will be using in my scenarios. Note that I had accidentally omitted East Anglia from my earlier list . . .

IDS_SIDENAME_10, "Northumbrian"
IDS_SIDENAME_11, "Mercian"
IDS_SIDENAME_12, "Wessex"
IDS_SIDENAME_13, "Dal Riata"
IDS_SIDENAME_14, "Gododdin"
IDS_SIDENAME_15, "Kent"
IDS_SIDENAME_16, "East Anglia"

Thanks for helping me with this. :wink:

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:39 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:16 pm
Paul,

Here are the army sidenumbers that I will be using in my scenarios. Note that I had accidentally omitted East Anglia from my earlier list . . .

IDS_SIDENAME_10, "Northumbrian"
IDS_SIDENAME_11, "Mercian"
IDS_SIDENAME_12, "Wessex"
IDS_SIDENAME_13, "Dal Riata"
IDS_SIDENAME_14, "Gododdin"
IDS_SIDENAME_15, "Kent"
IDS_SIDENAME_16, "East Anglia"

Thanks for helping me with this. :wink:
Hi Pete,

Here is a new banner pack for your scenarios containing flags for all the factions that you listed.

I kept the Vikings as only one banner, but I have made a new one, black with a white raven. I will use this for my updated TT Mod also.

I kept the size of the files down through an ingenious modification to the Banner.txt. I have never done that before, but I have tested that it works, and it seems to be okay. Combined with changes to the banner models, the whole Data folder is now less than half the size that it normally would be.

I also checked the banners against your list of scenarios, and there does not seem to be any clash of colours between the two sides.

Here is the mediafire link:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ropwvrtqp ... 2.rar/file

Just download and install exactly like you did with the previous folder I made. You should delete that one from your scenario folders as it is incompatible with this new pack.



cheers

Paul
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Thanks Paul but I still need some help.

I have tried to use the new pack for the Ethandun scenario but I am not sure if I have got everything in the right place in my scenario folder. When I set up a multi-player game Wessex had sort of burgundy banners and the Vikings had white triangles on sky blue background. So something changed, but it was not the colours that I was expecting.

My scenario folder for Ethandun currently has the following in it . . .

DATA ---------------- Data folder........BATTLE.......Banners
.........----------------UI folder ...........empty

SCENARIOS ...........BAM file
.........................BSF file

BannerSideID's

CAMPAIGN

My design notes for scenario

Your Notes document

TEXT1

TEXT9

TEXT10


So something must be wrong somewhere but I don't know what it is. Please advise.

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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:32 pm

I have tried it a second time and just copied and pasted the Data file and BannerSideIDs (not the TEXT10 or your Notes) and got exactly the same result. Burgundy banners for the Saxons and white triangle on blue banners for the Vikings. So it is changing the banners but not to the colours I was expecting.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:55 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:32 pm
I have tried it a second time and just copied and pasted the Data file and BannerSideIDs (not the TEXT10 or your Notes) and got exactly the same result. Burgundy banners for the Saxons and white triangle on blue banners for the Vikings. So it is changing the banners but not to the colours I was expecting.
Once you have downloaded and extracted what I sent you, everything should just be copied and pasted directly into your scenario folder. So it should look something like this:

Image

Obviously I don't know exactly what you have called your scenario folder, but that's not important, this screenshot is just to give you an idea of what it should look like.

From what you wrote it sounds like you have put my Data folder inside the existing Data folder. That would be wrong, and explains the mucked up banners.

The Notes.xlsx is my spreadsheet that I used to work out all the relationships between the factions, side numbers, banner numbers, banner indices etc. It is not read by the game at all, and has no relevance except that it might be useful to you if you are tempted to see how I did this. It will also be useful to me if I have to add anything or correct any mistakes.

The Text10.txt I created to change all the side numbers to your new factions. You don't need it, but it will save you the trouble of doing it all yourself. It just contains this information:

IDS_SIDENAME_10,"Northumbrians",
IDS_SIDENAME_11,"Mercians",
IDS_SIDENAME_12,"Wessex",
IDS_SIDENAME_13,"Dal Riata",
IDS_SIDENAME_14,"Gododdin",
IDS_SIDENAME_15,"Kent",
IDS_SIDENAME_16,"East Anglia",
IDS_SIDENAME_63,"Britons",
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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:58 pm

When you open the Data folder inside the Etandun scenario folder it should look like this:

Image
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:16 pm

I have had another go and it has got a bit weirder. I have copied exactly what you have done above and the Wessex units have a red banner with a symbol on it which I cannot quite make out (a wyvern perhaps?) but if you click on one of these units to get the unit box up then that unit is shown with an emerald green flag. Similarly, the Viking units now have a black banner with a white raven, but if you click on an individual Viking unit the box shows them with that white and blue banner again.

Edit: also the introductory screen with the blurb about the battle (before you go through to the battlefield) has emerald green and white and blue as the colours for Wessex and the Vikings respectively.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:29 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:16 pm
I have had another go and it has got a bit weirder. I have copied exactly what you have done above and the Wessex units have a red banner with a symbol on it which I cannot quite make out (a wyvern perhaps?) but if you click on one of these units to get the unit box up then that unit is shown with an emerald green flag. Similarly, the Viking units now have a black banner with a white raven, but if you click on an individual Viking unit the box shows them with that white and blue banner again.

Edit: also the introductory screen with the blurb about the battle (before you go through to the battlefield) has emerald green and white and blue as the colours for Wessex and the Vikings respectively.
Don't worry pete, you have done nothing wrong. I am getting the same thing on my pc. To be honest I have never noticed the unit flags showing up on the unit box before!

It must be something to do with my efforts to reduce the size of the Data folder. I have no idea at the moment why the unit flags are wrong on the unitbox, I will have to look into it.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:31 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:29 pm

Don't worry pete, you have done nothing wrong. I am getting the same thing on my pc. To be honest I have never noticed the unit flags showing up on the unit box before!

It must be something to do with my efforts to reduce the size of the Data folder. I have no idea at the moment why the unit flags are wrong on the unitbox, I will have to look into it.
OK Paul. In the unit box and the intro screen as well if that suggests anything. I'll wait to hear from you. :wink:

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:32 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:31 pm
Paul59 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:29 pm

Don't worry pete, you have done nothing wrong. I am getting the same thing on my pc. To be honest I have never noticed the unit flags showing up on the unit box before!

It must be something to do with my efforts to reduce the size of the Data folder. I have no idea at the moment why the unit flags are wrong on the unitbox, I will have to look into it.
OK Paul. In the unit box and the intro screen as well if that suggests anything. I'll wait to hear from you. :wink:
I can't figure it out Pete. What determines which flag appears in the unit box (and the intro screen) must either be hard coded or buried deep in the script files, as nothing I change in the Banner.txt makes any difference.

The only solution would be for me to abandon my scheme of saving file space by modding the Banner.txt, and just duplicate all the banners with a standard Banner.txt. I will put it together for you, just delete the stuff I sent today.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:50 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:32 pm

I can't figure it out Pete. What determines which flag appears in the unit box (and the intro screen) must either be hard coded or buried deep in the script files, as nothing I change in the Banner.txt makes any difference.

The only solution would be for me to abandon my scheme of saving file space by modding the Banner.txt, and just duplicate all the banners with a standard Banner.txt. I will put it together for you, just delete the stuff I sent today.
OK then. Thanks Paul. :wink:

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:08 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:50 pm
OK then. Thanks Paul. :wink:
OK, here it is, version 3!:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/9q0ps9o81 ... 3.rar/file

Delete all the files that you downloaded earlier today, download and install these files. Only the contents of the Data folder have changed.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:36 pm

Yes, I have just sat down with your new banner pack and the first ones are looking great. I am doing the River Idle 616 scenario this evening and the East Angians and Raedwald have a really deep blue colour for their banners and the Northumbrians have their striped banners. Excellent. Thanks very much. :D

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