Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

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GrenzerKuK
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Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by GrenzerKuK » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:37 am

I haven't seen anything in the Dev Diaries about this yet and with the delay in PC2 release maybe there is still time to make sure the designers get it right this time. The medal system in PC is obviously a pretty basic and abstract one by necessity but even so the glaring errors made regarding the British & Commonwealth forces' medals were atrocious. Having the Victoria Cross as the highest decoration of the three was fine and you can make a rational argument for choosing the Military Cross as the first of the three but there is really no excuse for using the George Cross as the second medal awarded. The George Cross is primarily a civilian gallantry award and although in theory it can be awarded to military personnel under special circumstances those circumstances are most unlikely to occur in wartime, especially during a total war like the Second World War. To quote from the medal's Warrant 'The Cross is intended primarily for civilians and award in Our military services is to be confined to actions for which purely military Honours are not normally granted'. Those actions are in fact limited to 'gallantry not in the face of the enemy'. Given the setting of PC and PC2 is the Second World War and revolves around combat operations this all but rules out the awarding of the George Cross by definition. Given this it would make much more sense to make the second medal for the British & Commonwealth units the Companion of the Distinguished Service Order (DSO). The Distinguished Service Order (DSO) was instituted in 1886 to recognise acts of gallantry by military officers for which a Victoria Cross was not considered appropriate. It was awarded to thousands of British & Commonwealth officers in both world wars. It also looks great and aesthetically speaking makes a great fit sitting between the Victoria Cross and the Military Cross. I suppose the only possible objection is that in the world wars only officers were eligible for the DSO but then that is also the case with the Military Cross - the other ranks (or enlisted as Americans like to call them) equivalent were the Distinguished Conduct Medal and the Military Medal which officers were ineligible to receive. You can rationalise choosing the officers medals over the other ranks medals by assuming the awards are to being made to a unit's commanders if it really bothers you. Anyway I hope Slitherine do a better job with the British & Commonwealth medals on PC2 than they did with PC (and honestly that was my only real gripe with PC which I love playing).

prestidigitation
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by prestidigitation » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:18 pm

I grant you a medal for most pedantic complaint I have ever seen.

Retributarr
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by Retributarr » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:30 pm

prestidigitation wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:18 pm
I grant you a medal for most pedantic complaint I have ever seen.
Wot!!!...'Ohhh Gooodie!...Ohhh Badie!'...Navar see Dat Befor...Navar!.

GrenzerKuK
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by GrenzerKuK » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:35 am

prestidigitation wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:18 pm
I grant you a medal for most pedantic complaint I have ever seen.
Not in your power of gift old boy - I'm a subject of Her Majesty so I'm afraid I must decline the 'honour'. Seriously though why is this anymore trivial than any of the other aesthetic elements of the game which after all make up a huge part of its attraction for players. I'm not the one who devised the lavishly depicted medal system for PC - its Slitherine who went there not me. If they had just used generic 'Gold Star, Silver Star, Bronze Star' emblems across all factions I'd be fine with it but as they did decide to go down the road of detailed images of nationally unique medal sets then surely its not too much to ask of them to get it right?

Patrick Ward
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by Patrick Ward » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:23 pm

Our current working set of British medals are Victoria Cross, Military Cross, Military Medal.
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GrenzerKuK
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by GrenzerKuK » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:56 pm

Thanks for answering my question Patrick. I guess it's an improvement on the PC1 set but it still doesn't make any sense because the officers Military Cross is the equivalent of the other ranks' Military Medal - the MC is not a higher award than the MM - it is just that in the British military tradition up until the last 20 years or so officers were eligible for one 'gallantry medal path' - usually a cross-shaped decoration (MC, DSO) while other ranks were eligible for a different 'gallantry medal path' - usually a medallion-shaped decoration (MM, DCM). The highest gallantry award of them all, the Victoria Cross, is the exception that proves the rule with all ranks (officers and other ranks) being eligible for it - the crucial 'final level' where both both medal paths finally meet. If you really want to get it right then you should choose either the VC, DCM, MM set (other ranks) or VC, DSO, MC set (officers).

DCM = Distinguished Conduct Medal (higher award than the MM and again only other ranks eligible)

But at least that bloody silly George Cross is gone for which I'll be eternally grateful.

Patrick Ward
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by Patrick Ward » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:58 pm

Thanks, if I get chance I might well change it.
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smee106
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by smee106 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 am

If you think that the George Cross is a ‘silly medal’ then you obviously don’t know what it is.
It is on par with the VC and awardable to anyone, military or civilian, it is a medal for extreme courage not in the face of the enemy.
It has been awarded to ammo techs involved in bomb disposal during the troubles in NI, Iraq and Afghan (usually posthumously) whilst not really the appropriate medal for PC2 it is not a silly medal, show some respect.

GrenzerKuK
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Re: Will PC2 fix the mistakes made re British medals in PC1?

Post by GrenzerKuK » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:53 pm

Settle down champ,

1) Anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise I was referring to the GC's misplaced presence in the British medal set for PC1 - which was silly - where it clearly didn't belong given the military combat-focussed context of the game (and remember it is, after all, just a game) and in no way, shape or form was I having a crack at the institution of the award, much less those who have received it over the years since its introduction in September 1940 (and that intro date, 12 months after the Second World War starts, is yet another reason why it didn't really fit in the PC1 British medal set).

2) I know all about the prestige of the George Cross and, just as importantly the Albert and Edward Medals it finally replaced in 1971, as an old family friend, John Gregson GC, who served in the British Merchant Navy during World War Two, was awarded the Albert Medal for saving the life of a wounded shipmate after their ship SS Deucalian was torpedoed off the coast of Malta on 12 August 1942. John declined to exchange his Albert Medal for the George Cross in 1971 but attended the biannual VCGCA reunions right up until the last few years of his life (it was a long trip from his home in New Zealand for him to attend - he died in 2016). John, a friend of my grandparents (and my grandfather was a veteran of the North African campaign - 24th (Auckland) Battalion, 6 Brigade, 2nd New Zealand Division 1940-43) was a very humble man with a great sense of humour (something apparently missing in certain people posting on forums like this) who never mentioned his GC unless you asked him a direct question about it - and even then he would insist that he had not done anything above or beyond what his shipmates would've done in the same situation. My respect could not be greater for men like John and my grandfather - who at the age of just 21 found himself taking over as the Battalion RSM on the first night of the Second Battle of El Alamein (while the biggest responsibility I had to deal with at the age of 21 was getting to morning classes on time and paying the rent). So I don't need any lectures from you on the subject, thanks all the same.

3) I do however appreciate that, despite giving me an ear full, you nonetheless also recognise that the GC was not a good fit in the original British medal set on PC1.

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