Desert movement cost

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allophyl
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:36 pm

Desert movement cost

Post by allophyl »

I'm just starting the Afrika Korps campaign and wanted to learn how different movement types are affected by desert terrain, so I went to check out the wiki (https://panzercorps.fandom.com/wiki/Terrain) but it has negative values under desert for most movement types. Is that a typo, or do negative values mean something?
PanzerTum
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by PanzerTum »

If you look at the library you will see these values as percentages

Image

I'm not sure but I think the values must be interpreted as the cost to move 1 hex.

Normal infantry for instance will have to spend 2 of its movement allowance in hills, all of its movement allowance in mountains to move 1 hex
Alpine infantry movement cost for moving in hills & mountains is only 1

Bersaglieri with movement 3 in desert can only move 2. Maybe that is 50% of 3 rounded to 2.
Trucks with movement 8 can move 5 in desert. 8 - 20% is 6.4 so I really cannot explain this at the moment :(
allophyl
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by allophyl »

Ah I think I understand now. The movement cost is 50% of the unit's movement points for leg units and 20% of the unit's movement points for wheeled units, so infantry will always be able to move 2 hexes across desert regardless of their base movement points, while trucks and wheeled recons will always be able to move 5 tiles regardless of their base movment points), and all-terrain units will always be able to move 6 tiles regardless of their base movement points
terminator
Field Marshal - Elefant
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by terminator »

If I understood correctly :
2(foot)+5(wheel)=7 which amounts to 8 - 20%(=6.4) rounded up ?
allophyl
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 20
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by allophyl »

terminator wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:50 am If I understood correctly :
2(foot)+5(wheel)=7 which amounts to 8 - 20%(=6.4) rounded up ?
No. Either foot or wheel movement are used in a single movement phase, not both. The 20% for wheeled isn't a 20% penalty to movement. The 20%, like every other number in the table, is a cost. Instead of costing a flat 1 or 2 movement points like most other terrain, it instead costs a percantage of the unit's total movement points. That means that all wheeled units, having a 20% cost, can move exactly 5 tiles across desert, regardless of their base movement speed. Similarly, legged units, having a 50% cost, can move exactly 2 tiles across desert, whether they are a grenadier or wehrmacht. An all-terrain recon unit, having a 16% cost, can move exactly 6 tiles across desert.

I'm not sure how exactly movement heros factor into this, if the percentage cost is based on the movement before or after the hero bonus. Once I get a movement hero or two I'll let you know.
PanzerTum
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by PanzerTum »

Ah it finally makes sense to me know. These units instead of looking at movement points just have 100% of movement to spend, so when the cost for 1 desert hex is 20% you can move 5 hexes.
Easy once you know it..
terminator
Field Marshal - Elefant
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by terminator »

So no matter the maximum number of movement points, the maximum is 5 in the desert (5 x 20% = 100%).
rubyjuno
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by rubyjuno »

Interesting and informative discussion... one of the reasons I come back to the PzC forum regularly!
allophyl wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:02 am I'm just starting the Afrika Korps campaign
AK is a great campaign, lots of variation, you'll enjoy it.
captainjack
Brigadier-General - 8.8 cm Pak 43/41
Brigadier-General - 8.8 cm Pak 43/41
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:42 am

Re: Desert movement cost

Post by captainjack »

The 50% move for infantry and 20% for vehicles negates move heroes which is a bit annoying. I wouldn't mind but I haven't yet worked out the full set of changes needed to mod movement changes so that they work - when I've tried edits, it usually throws a wobbly and crashes the game.
stormbringer3
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by stormbringer3 »

Are movement heroes ever useful, such as in the later scenarios, or is it best just to ignore them completely?
Thanks.
rubyjuno
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by rubyjuno »

stormbringer3 wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:11 pm Are movement heroes ever useful, such as in the later scenarios, or is it best just to ignore them completely?
Thanks.
Movement heroes are great for infantry, especially Grenadiers and Pionieres, who only have a move of 2. I have a fixed AA (88mm) with a move hero and this is handy as it means I can get more aircraft in range. Also for tanks, as it gives the Panther a great range, and later the Tigers which have low movement as standard. On aircraft, I suppose it's not such a big deal as they have a greater move anyway. So I think they are useful, depending on the unit.
stormbringer3
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by stormbringer3 »

I always use them in the regular campaign but after looking at captainjack's post above I was wondering about using them in Afrika Korps.
captainjack
Brigadier-General - 8.8 cm Pak 43/41
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by captainjack »

Many AK scenarios include non-desert terrain, so move heroes can be useful.
They do seem to work for towed artillery, AA and AT at all times - and for me the move hero on any of these units is the most useful of all.
stormbringer3
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by stormbringer3 »

Thank you captainjack for your reply to this post and also to my previous thread. You have been so very helpful concerning this game over the years and have also shared a lot of gameplaying knowledge.
faos333
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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Re: Desert movement cost

Post by faos333 »

great discussion, we always need to know more
Battlefield Europe get the most from Panzer Corps 8)
Download the new 2.4 Mod here http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
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