Slitherine

For those of you who want to know when and what you can buy with Commendation Points, what goodies can be found in hidden caches, and some other special units and events that pop up, I decided to take it upon myself to find and note these things down and share them with you all, along with some commentary on them.
Edit: After a suggestion from Scrapulous, I've added in some brief notes regarding which missions have Bonus Objectives, as well as a running tally of the total Commendations you could have earned vs spent. I will not be going into detail about these Bonus Objectives or how to complete them, as that's a bit outside the scope of this guide.

Please note that:
A) Any commentary on the various units and other rewards are simply my personal opinion. Feel free to bring up your own experiences and opinions on these things, cause I very well could have missed something.
B) I haven't played much with Retrograde, so most of my opinions assume you are playing without it. Similarly, I love me some Trophies of War, so I had to actively make sure I compared units more to the standard German units and not my arsenal of captured equipment.

Anyway, let's get on with what you're all here for:

AO Spanish Civil War
Seville
Objectives
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map. And I believe they both give 1 Commendation each.
Total: Earned 2/Spent 0

Cache
The first mission of the Spanish Civil War is the location of our first hidden cache. If you can manage to run a ship loaded with one of your Spanish army of Africa units east, you can have them land at Gibraltar, where they find a set of 19 203mm M1931 artillery.
The 203mm is the biggest, baddest artillery piece you'll find during the Spanish Civil War. Unfortunately, you can only acquire it here and in the only other cache you can find during this Campaign, so keep it safe or you'll quickly lose it.

Antequera
Events
by now most people probably know that capturing the Airfield at 13,15 spawns a trio of Ju52 bombers considering it is mentioned in the briefing itself, so I'll just cut to the commentary.
The Ju52s are pretty much mandatory to pull off one of the Bonus Objectives on this map, but after that their only real use is the fact that they are the only Strategic Bombers you'll have available for a while, especially if you're running Retrograde.

Objectives
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 4/Spent 0

Cache
Remember that other cache of the Spanish Civil War I mentioned? If you send a unit up along the top of the map to a Village at coordinates 20,4 you'll find said cache. This one contains another 10 203mm M1931s, as well as 10 122mm M10/30 artillery pieces as well.
The 122mm is another good artillery unit compared to your current German guns. However, the only way you'll be able to get replacements if it takes damage is to capture more from the Republicans.

Merida
Events
And now we arrive at our first chance to spend those commendations you've been racking up (You have been completing those Bonus Objectives right?)! At the start of the mission, you have the opportunity to spend 3 Commendations for some captured equipment: 35 Trubia tanks and 35 UNL-35 recon units.
The Trubia is a nifty little tank that is superior to your Panzer IAs. However, pretty much every other tank you'll encounter or acquire during the Civil War is on par or better, even the Panzer IBs. Still a useful unit during the early game, especially with Retrograde.
The UNL is in a similar boat, in that it's better than your German recon units and the enemy Bilbaos, but not as good as the enemy AACs and BAs. On the other hand, you don't get better German recon units besides the starting one, so the UNL remains useful the entire campaign, and even if you capture some AAcs and BAs, both of those have shorter range of movement compared to the UNL, so an argument can still be made for it's use.

Objectives
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 6/Spent 3

Toledo
Objectives
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 8/Spent 3

Early Madrid
Events
At the start of this mission, if you spend a mere 2 Commendations, then on turn 2 you get one of, in my opinion, the best Commendation Rewards in both the Spanish Civil War and 1939 Campaigns: the Verdeja 2 tank Gift Unit.
Frankly, the Verdeja 2 is the bastard love child of the mobility of a BT-5 and the firepower and armor of a T-26. Hands down the best tank in this Campaign, and remains competitive against the various German, French, Polish, and Russian tanks you run into throughout 1939. It should to continue to serve well though the defeat of France, although I'm less certain of it's chances against the T-34s, KV-1s, and others that are bound to show up once we get to Russia...

Objectives
There are no Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 8/Spent 5

Corunna
Objectives
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Escorting the prisoners to safety earns 2 Commendations, while capturing all Victory Points earns 1.
Total: Earned 11/Spent 5

Malaga/Bilbao
Objectives
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 12/Spent 5

Brunete
Events
The start of this mission brings another opportunity to buy some captured enemy equipment. The 3 Commendations you spend this time earn you some better rewards that the last stash you bought, giving you 25 T-26 tanks and 25 I-16 fighters.
The T-26 is one of the best tanks the Republicans have alongside the BT-5, and now you can have your own to replace your lackluster Panzers. It's even historically accurate, considering the Nationalists prized them enough that they put out a bounty to be rewarded to anyone who managed to capture a T-26 in working condition.
The I-16s are more of mixed bag. The are better that your initial biplane Fighters, but unless you are playing Retrograde you should have HE 112s by now, which are roughly on par at minimum and don't have limited numbers.

Objectives
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 13/Spent 8

Zaragoza/Gijon
Events
Regardless of which path you took, at the start of either of these mission you are given a choice: Pay 50% of your current amount of Prestige and receive 12 Commendations, or don't. Honestly, I have a hard time coming up with a reason not to invest in these Prestige sinks, especially this one considering a certain high cost Commendation Reward coming up.

Objectives
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 26/Spent 8

Teruel
Event
An opportunity for another Gift Unit arrives at the start of the mission. 3 Commendations nets you a Panzer IIA on Turn 2.
The Panzer IIA is kinda lackluster compared to the other Gift Unit you get during this campaign, but it's cheap and better than your Panzer Is. If you are playing the Trophies of War game and have a few T-26s and/or Bt-5s though, you can probably skip this one.

Objectives
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map, and it grants 2 Commendations
Total: Earned 28/Spent 11

Ebro
Events
At the start of this infamous mission, we arrive at the primary argument for taking that Prestige Sink back in Zaragoza or Gijon. For a whopping 10 Commendations, you get your first Super Hero: Adolf Galland.
Galland provides a significant boost to whichever Fighter or Tactical Bomber he is assigned to. +2 to Initiative and +2 Air Attack make give him an edge against enemy aircraft, while Aiming Assistance and Leadership provide support for nearby units. And of course, as a Legendary Hero he generates Prestige for you just by existing. As much as I love the Verdeja, if you are only going to aquire 1 Commendation Reward during the Spanish Civil War, it should probably be this guy.

Objectives
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 29/Spent 21

Catalonia
Objectives
While there are technically no Bonus Objectives, fulfilling the Main Objective of destroying 10 Convoys does earn you 1 Commendation.
Total: Earned 30/Spent 21

Madrid 39
Events
To wrap up the Spanish Civil War, the start of this mission gives you the opportunity to resupply your stock of captured equipment you may have acquired through previous Commendation rewards. For 3 Commendations you get 30 T-26s, 30 Trubias, 30 UNL-35s, and 30 I-16s.

Objectives
There are no Bonus Objectives on this map.
Final Total: Earned 30/Spent 24

1939
1940
1941 East
1942 East
1943 East
1944 East
1945 East
1946 Amerika

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:47 am
The first mission of the Spanish Civil War is the location of our first hidden cache. If you can manage to run a ship loaded with one of your Spanish army of Africa units east, you can have them land at Gibraltar, where they find a set of 10 203mm M1931 artillery.

I have been wanting to write my own little guide to this particular cache.

Locating this cache in Gibraltar is pretty easy and strait- forward ; It is the ONLY hex in British Gibraltar that does not fall within the red line no - go area.

How to get to it without being blasted into oblivion by the Republican navy ?

Leave one unit in Morocco.

And of the units you sent to Spain , leave one unit to loiter around Cadiz , within range of Republican navy guns. I'm not sure if the Republican navy patrols back and forth if there are no units around Cadiz ? But , certainly , if there is at least one unit loitering around Cadiz , then the Republican navy will remain rooted to the far western edge of the map , trying to bombard the unit in Cadiz into oblivion.

While the Republican navy is parked on the western end of the map , bombarding your sacrificial lamb in Cadiz , take the unit you left in Morocco and embark it on a boat in the Moroccan port farthest east and sail for Gibraltar . The Republican navy in the west will be too far away to see your defenseless little unit in its defenseless little boat leaving from the farthest port east.

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:47 am The 203mm is the biggest, baddest artillery piece you'll find during the Spanish Civil War. Unfortunately, you can only acquire it here and in the only other cache you can find during this Campaign, so keep it safe or you'll quickly lose it.

In my experience this unit is enemy aircrafts number one favorite target ! They will attack it even with two AA guns parked beside it.

How I avoid losing it is by making sure that in every clear weather turn one of my aircraft is parked over it. It means one aircraft unit I can't use. But I still have a full - strength Russian 203mm 1931 howitzer unit by the end of AO 1939 DLC.

With the Spanish Civil War handled, it's time to take a tour of several central European counties.

AO 1939
Czechoslovakia
Objectives & Events
Starting things off, we have several things happening this mission.
Firstly, at the start you receive 5 Commendations for free. Why? Because the sole Bonus Objective for this mission, instead of rewarding you for completing it like pretty much every other Bonus Objective, instead penalizes you with a -5 Commendations if you fail the Objective. And trust me, you want those 5 Commendations.
Anyway, this means Total: Earned 5/Spent 0.

Secondly, if you are NOT importing a Core Force from the Spanish Civil War, you start this Campaign with 6 Heroes, 5 of which posses singular, generally high tier abilities. The 6th is a guy named Siegfried von Bonde.
Von Bonde is an interesting Hero. He's better than the standard Heroes you get every mission, but not quite as good as the ones you can buy with Commendations like Galland. His Artillery Support and AT Support abilities allow you to turn any Unit into a king of support fire, although how good it performs depends on which unit you assign him to.

Finally, on turn 2, regardless of whether you imported a Core Force or not, you receive a Gift Unit in the form of Spanish volunteers, the Azul-Infantrie.
Your Spanish friends are a fine addition to your army. Their defensive stats are matched only by your Grenadiers, while their more average offensive stats are boosted by the Rapid Fire 1.5x trait they possess. They also have nifty hats.

Sarreguemines
Events
You remember those 5 Commendations you get at the start of this Campaign? I hope you didn't lose them, because at the start of this mission you get the option to spend 5 Commendations for a new Super Hero: Albert Kerscher.
Kerscher is a Tank/Anti-Tank specialist, and his +3 Initiative, Tank Killer, and Aggressive Counterattack make him a terror to enemy tanks. He's also Famous, so more Prestige just for exisiting. If you happen to have von Bonde, pairing the them together is a potent combo.

Objectives:
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map, deploying 3 Minefields gives 1 Commendation, and all 6 Minefields gives an additional 2 Commendations.
Total: Earned 9/Spent 5.

Cache
At a flag placed in some rough terrain at 27,20 you'll find the first cache of 1939: 5 Char B1 tanks.
The Char B1 is one of the 2 tanks competing for the title of best French Tank (We'll get to it's competitor later.). Even your new Panzer 38(t)s only beat this titan in speed. The Char B boasts high defensive stats, although it's speed isn't the greatest. However, unless you are playing the capture game, with only 5 Char Bs you can't field any of these lumbering behemoths...yet.

Warndt
Objectives:
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map, raiding St Avold gives 2 Commendations
Total: Earned 12/Spent 5.

Cache
In the part of the city of St. Avold closest to the river, you'll find another cache: another set of 5 Char B1s! Now you can actually field a unit of them!

Orenthal
Objectives:
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map, raiding Orenthal gives 2 Commendations.
Total: Earned 15/Spent 5.

Cache
If you lay siege Orenthal and manage to claim the Airfield, you'll be rewarded with 7 more Char B1s (Noticing a pattern yet?).

Forbach
Objectives:
There are 3 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 18/Spent 5.

Cache
I hope you like the Char B1, because by taking Forbach itself you receive another 5 (For better or worse, this is the last one.).

Saarbrucken
Events
We get 2 Events this mission. At the start, you get the option to spend 6 Commendations for a familiar face from Panzer Corps 1: Oleh Dir.
Dir is an Infantry Hero, providing a very useful +2 Movement boost to the often slower Infantry. He also gives +2 Initiative and Precision Weapon, pakcing a stronger punch. And of course, like the other Super Heroes, he's a Famous guy.
For another 6 Commendations on Turn 2, you can purchase a a stash of 35 Somua S35 parts, 10 of which show up on the map as an extra Unit on Turn 3. (The way the event reads and the similarity with the Verdeja and Panzer IIA Events in SCW made me think that this was a Gift Unit, but actually is just a Captured Unit.)
The Somua S35 is the Char B1s competitor for best French tank I mentioned earlier. While it has less defense than the Char B1, it has slightly better attack, higher speed, and is a flat upgrade in pretty much every way to your Panzer 38(t)s.

Objectives:
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 20/Spent 17.

Bzura
Objectives:
There are 2 Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 22/Spent 17.

Cache
We have 2 caches to plunder on this map at the villages at 33,36 and 40,32, both of which contain 7 7TPdws and 7 SP wz. 29s each.
The 7TPdw main selling point compared to the Panzer 38(t) is its Rapid Fire 1.5x trait, and compared to the Panzer IIC it doesn't even get that. With these caches being the only place to get them (outside of captures) and in small amounts, they probably aren't worth it.
The SP wz. 29 on the other hand, is a more interesting trade when compared to the SdKfz 222, gaining 4 points of Soft Attack in exchange for not having the Rapid Fire 1.5x Trait. Definitly an interesting option for your Recon forces if you don't have an abundance of Panhards captured from France, although numbers will be limited without captures.

Modlin/Lvov
Events
Whichever route you pick, at the start of the mission you receive a new Gift Unit for free, and Armored Train.
The Armored Train is an artillery unit with great mobility, but heavily limited by the fact that it can only move via rail. It's free though, so just make sure to check the map before deploying it.

Brest/Wlodawa
Events
Time for the 1939 Prestige Sink. At the start of either mission you can pay 75% of your prestige for 14 Commendations. Much like with the Prestige Sink during the Spanish Civil War, you can expect a reason for this massive amount of resources soon.

Objectives:
There are no Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 36/Spent 17.

Warsaw
Events
I told you it would be soon. At the start of the mission, you are given the opportunity to spend 8 commendations to investigate rumors of a Russian prototype plane. If you spend these Commendations, you will get a report that they found only garbage (18 PZL P.11c and 19 I-15 fighters as well as 17 PZL P.37B Los bombers) EVERY TIME. The important thing is that if you do spend those points, when Turn 5 rolls around you are given the choice to spend 4 more Commendations to continue the search. If you spend that, then on Turn 9 you'll receive a report informing you of success, and you receive a Gift Unit of an Il-2 Sturmovik.
The P.11cs, I-15s, and P.37Bs are all inferior to your German planes, even with Retrograde. The are, indeed, garbage.
The Il-2, on the other hand, is a different story. It's essentially a Ju87 that isn't as much of a sitting duck, with only 1 less Soft Attack in exchange for significantly increased Air Attack and Air Defense. You pretty much have to take the Prestige Sink if you want this though. 12 Commendations is a very hefty price tag if you just try to save your Commendations from missions, and runs the risk of missing out on other important rewards, namely Kerscher and Dir.

Objectives:
There are no Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 36/Spent 33.

Raate
Objectives:
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map, and it gives 2 Commendations.
Total: Earned 38/Spent 33.

Taipale
Objectives:
There is 1 Bonus Objectives on this map, and it gives 2 Commendations.
Total: Earned 40/Spent 33.

Denmark
Events
We're ending 1939 with a bang. If you pay 5 Commendations at the start of this mission, you receive 35 KV-2s.
The KV-2 is just a monster of a tank at this point, and unfortunately has the Slot requirements to prove it. It's a shame you only get it for one scenario of 1939, even moreso considering Denmark really doesn't have much of anything that can really compete with it.

Objectives:
There are no Bonus Objectives on this map.
Total: Earned 40/Spent 38.

Anyway, hope this guide helps at least someone.
If I made a mistake somewhere or if you want to share your own thoughts on any of the rewards feel free to comment.

KesaAnna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:31 am I have been wanting to write my own little guide to this particular cache.

Locating this cache in Gibraltar is pretty easy and strait- forward ; It is the ONLY hex in British Gibraltar that does not fall within the red line no - go area.

How to get to it without being blasted into oblivion by the Republican navy ?

Leave one unit in Morocco.

And of the units you sent to Spain , leave one unit to loiter around Cadiz , within range of Republican navy guns. I'm not sure if the Republican navy patrols back and forth if there are no units around Cadiz ? But , certainly , if there is at least one unit loitering around Cadiz , then the Republican navy will remain rooted to the far western edge of the map , trying to bombard the unit in Cadiz into oblivion.

While the Republican navy is parked on the western end of the map , bombarding your sacrificial lamb in Cadiz , take the unit you left in Morocco and embark it on a boat in the Moroccan port farthest east and sail for Gibraltar . The Republican navy in the west will be too far away to see your defenseless little unit in its defenseless little boat leaving from the farthest port east.

Thanks for the tip! The couple times I've taken a detour to Gibraltar I might have used...more unscrupulous methods *cough*setanystrength100*cough*

KesaAnna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:31 am In my experience this unit is enemy aircrafts number one favorite target ! They will attack it even with two AA guns parked beside it.

How I avoid losing it is by making sure that in every clear weather turn one of my aircraft is parked over it. It means one aircraft unit I can't use. But I still have a full - strength Russian 203mm 1931 howitzer unit by the end of AO 1939 DLC.

Oh god, don't remind me about the hate on enemy aircraft have for your big guns. But yeah, that's why I mentioned needing to keep it safe or you'll find yourself running out all too quickly.

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 am Oh god, don't remind me about the hate on enemy aircraft have for your big guns. But yeah, that's why I mentioned needing to keep it safe or you'll find yourself running out all too quickly.

It has something to do with how the AI makes calculation of what makes a 'good attack' It's a mixture of a unit's slot cost and prestige cost. The AI sees that gigantic juicy gun and is like 'that's a good deal attack attack!'

So absolutely giving such prizes proper escort is a must. Normally I'd consider 'double support' a hero worthy of deletion for prestige. But Double Support AA that follows around high value units pays for itself many, many times over.

Very nice list, thanks for compiling and sharing it! Maybe I can add it to the FAQ sticky as a helpful link, if you don't mind.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:42 am

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 am Oh god, don't remind me about the hate on enemy aircraft have for your big guns. But yeah, that's why I mentioned needing to keep it safe or you'll find yourself running out all too quickly.

It has something to do with how the AI makes calculation of what makes a 'good attack' It's a mixture of a unit's slot cost and prestige cost. The AI sees that gigantic juicy gun and is like 'that's a good deal attack attack!'

So absolutely giving such prizes proper escort is a must. Normally I'd consider 'double support' a hero worthy of deletion for prestige. But Double Support AA that follows around high value units pays for itself many, many times over.

Very nice list, thanks for compiling and sharing it! Maybe I can add it to the FAQ sticky as a helpful link, if you don't mind.

That makes sense.

And I fine with it being added to the FAQ, I made this to help people after all.

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 am That makes sense.

And I fine with it being added to the FAQ, I made this to help people after all.

Added, thanks for writing it up. Imagine how long the list of CP and Cache rewards will be after a few more DLC. Only 2 in, and it's a pretty good variety of goodies to hunt for and acquire.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:42 am

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:56 am That makes sense.

And I fine with it being added to the FAQ, I made this to help people after all.

Added, thanks for writing it up. Imagine how long the list of CP and Cache rewards will be after a few more DLC. Only 2 in, and it's a pretty good variety of goodies to hunt for and acquire.

Looking forward to it for sure.
Being able to build a motley army full of prototypes and equipment scavenged from all over the place is probably my favorite feature of this game.
Hoping for more air unit acquisitions in particular, particularly some more good ones like the Il-2. I know there were teases about Spitfires which I can't wait for.

Nice! I was waiting for such a list to appear, so that for a second go with all the AO there's a solid reference to check if nothing interesting got missed due to lack of CP or no capturing a specific hidden cache hex. On the first go there's the pure joy of discovery, but I imagine on the second one I will be going for each option viable ever as a challenge.

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:53 am The P.11cs, I-15s, and P.37Bs are all inferior to your German planes, even with Retrograde. The are, indeed, garbage.

PZL.37 is strangely under-powered in the game compared to the actual ones - it should be closer to the He 111 H-2 with similar soft attack but smaller hard attack (large bomb load for quite a small machine, but due to bomb bay design it had limitations in the weight of single bombs it could carry), but the strangest thing is very low air defense while the aircraft was fast and so maneuverable, that it was even considered a conversion into heavy interceptor variant. Would be quite interesting to use that captured stock, but with these stats there's little point.

Thanks for this, Stormchaser. It's great to have as a reference.

There is some other information that could be valuable:

• Total earnable commendation points per mission (i.e. "How many could I get here?")
• Total earnable commendation points so far (i.e. "How many could I have earned by this point?")
• Total remaining spendable commendation points per mission (i.e. "How much more value is there in chasing commendation points?")

I mention it in part because you mention that the Panzer 2 gift unit can be skipped. But it seems to me that's not really the whole evaluation. If I have more than enough CP to buy everything remaining, or expect to, then there is no reason not to take the gift. On the other hand, if not taking the Panzer 2 means I can expect to get everything else I want in the DLC, or if it means I can avoid the prestige sink, that might be a very worthwhile trade-off. Since CP don't transfer from DLC to DLC, the economy is very self-contained.

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 am Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for the thanks !

The Russian 203mm 1931 howitzer is one of my very favorite units in the game. As long as I can maintain a full - strength unit of them , I won't convert to the 21 cm Mrs 18.

So , consequently , I have spent more time playing the Seville scenario than any other in the game , trying to figure out a less cheaty way of consistently getting that cache in Gibraltar. Maybe there is a better way of accomplishing the task ? But I put a lot of effort into coming up with a scheme to acquire that cache.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:42 am Very nice list, thanks for compiling and sharing it! Maybe I can add it to the FAQ sticky as a helpful link, if you don't mind.

Lol , that's what I thought.

I didn't say anything in this case , because that would be the second time in four days that I asked for a stickie.

And I figured the work was good enough that it might wind up in the stickies anyway , whether I said anything or not.

Tassadar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:10 pm Nice! I was waiting for such a list to appear, so that for a second go with all the AO there's a solid reference to check if nothing interesting got missed due to lack of CP or no capturing a specific hidden cache hex. On the first go there's the pure joy of discovery, but I imagine on the second one I will be going for each option viable ever as a challenge.

Stormchaser wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:53 am The P.11cs, I-15s, and P.37Bs are all inferior to your German planes, even with Retrograde. The are, indeed, garbage.

PZL.37 is strangely under-powered in the game compared to the actual ones -

-- On a related note , I suspect complaints about the Saar campaign versus Polish campaign have dropped off after people played the DLC all the way through , for one reason , because the French have stuff worth scavenging , but , rightly or not , the pickings in Poland are pretty slim indeed.

Lots of people would like a stable full of French tanks . In at least my own case , the only piece of Polish equipment I might have wished to give a go was the Polish fighter aircraft --- which is not available for scavenging.

Though it is in Poland that your troops cobble together an armored train , presumably out of Polish parts. And the armored train is pretty neat.

KesaAnna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:00 pm Though it is in Poland that your troops cobble together an armored train , presumably out of Polish parts. And the armored train is pretty neat.

Aside from PZL.37 (assuming more accurate stats) and 7TP tanks (good, but a bit too thinly armored) there would be little of interest for the player. Swedish Bofors 37mm AT and 40m AA guns were adequate, but nothing to write home about, entirely comparable to German equipment. Everything else besides trucks and artillery transports was outdated, or getting outdated, so of little use. And the newer equipment was not numerous enough to be considered useful. So that's actually quite historically accurate. Almost makes me wish AO 1939 went all the way and allowed to sell those captured PZL.37's to Romania as it was the case.

The armored train is definitely a nice touch! Already assigned a hero to it and since it's just 2 points to deploy, I will likely end up using it a lot in 1940 and 41.

However, there is a question of scavenging prestige as well and in those scenarios it is easy to accumulate quite a lot of it for the future potential difficulty increase. We will still have a chance to increase out supply of French tanks.

Tassadar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:23 pm The armored train is definitely a nice touch! Already assigned a hero to it and since it's just 2 points to deploy, I will likely end up using it a lot in 1940 and 41.

However, there is a question of scavenging prestige as well and in those scenarios it is easy to accumulate quite a lot of it for the future potential difficulty increase. We will still have a chance to increase out supply of French tanks.

The armored train was a special request from a BETA tester. 1939 was so overloaded with goodies, we couldn't come up with enough bonus objectives to cover them all. So free Azul infanterie and a free train for all!

That train is a very bizarre unit, I rather like it a lot. It's got an insane low slot cost for an artillery piece, which is offset by it's being forced to exist on rail lines only. And unlike the crazy OP Gustav railroad gun, the firepower of the Panzerzug is inline with the performance of your average artillery gun, so it's not a problem to hand it out.

In future, and for those that didn't play 1939 and jumped into a later year, it's probably a good idea to offer a train as a future CP reward. It makes for a nice mid tier reward. Nothing incredible like a unique unit like the Verjada or a unit hero like Oleh Dir, but better than a pile of meh-ish captured equipment that sometimes cycles through the reward system.

It does remind me to constantly put railroad lines onto scenarios, which is good behavior, because train movement is so rarely invoked, it's nice to have it not be totally lost and forgotten. It does take a very special and large map for players to get any kind of proper use out of rail transport though. Like Warsaw is huge, and with tons of rail lines, and is cut up in city sectors that encourage rapid redeployment after a sector is cleared.

Prestige is a son of a bitch to balance, because the spectrum of players is outrageous. People who play on higher difficulty than they probably should and who also don't rely on any encirclement or surrender mechanics will absolutely get annihilated no matter how much prestige I inject into the content. On the other hand, players who play with all the tricks in the bag are swimming in captured stock and also prestige.

All I can say is thank goodness prestige is not the primary driver of scenario balance, like it was in the original Grand Campaign. DLC 1944 East really fell apart badly, because of the escalation of the conflict and escalation of player unit prices. It was so bad, people on higher difficulties needed to bank prestige from previous DLC to survive 1944, which I guess is kinda historical (better performance earlier makes surviving later easier) but it just felt awful. And forget about launching directly into that DLC as a stand alone campaign.

Even so, prestige is still a hot topic in Panzer Corps 2. If you run out, you are royally screwed, because it causes a snowball effect of problems. Too weak to fight, makes too weak to capture, makes too weak to claw back, and on the vicious cycle goes.

From the giant mountain of feedback we've gotten from players playing the heck out of 2 DLC I think....

Prestige needs to be ultra generous. Running out of prestige is the worst feeling there is, because it effectively ends your ability to play.
Prestige sinks need to be more frequent, to try and offset out of control prestige inflation.

Running out of prestige is shitty, but having infinite surplus also takes away some important decision making elements of the game.

By giving it out more freely, but also throwing more frequent prestige sinks into the content, hopefully there is a health exchange economy of prestige moving throughout the campaign. Too stingy, and people hoard it and overvalue traits like Liberator. To free, and element of management is totally lost, and that causes problems with scenarios needing to ramp up difficulty in other ways to challenge overpowered player formations.

But if there are opportunities to get a lot, but also opportunities to sink a lot of it... hopefully players can stay in a healthy ~5000ish reserve range. Dropping to triple digit prestige is dangerous, and going to double digit is basically going broke. 5k is a good bank for when a really tough, causality inflicting battle comes along (Ebro).

In fact, just saying it out loud, I wonder if future DLC might try a prestige reset. A flat cost prestige sink is terrible, because players have insanely varied amounts of prestige. 5000 prestige to go access a branch is ludicrous to the player with 496 prestige saved up. It's equally utterly meaningless to the player with 15496 prestige banked. Neither player is engaging with that prestige sink in a meaningful way.

Prestige % sinks are better, because at least every player can engage with them. The broke player pays very little of their prestige for the same reward a mega rich player need to pay. It's better than a flat cost, though it still hurts the poor player quite a bit, because it keeps pressure on their prestige and keeps it low.

But a prestige reset... could be a very interesting way to level the playing field in a super long Grand Campaign environment.

Prestige reset means an event that will not add or subtract your prestige, but instead will set it to a pre-determined number. So that will REALLY help poor players get back on track and it turns a prestige penalty into a life line! And it will prevent power players from growing their prestige out of control, because it is a hard reset regardless of how skyhigh they've banked it. So it hurts rich players as much as losing a giant %, but at least now it actually helps poor players instead of continuing to crap all over them. I like this idea a lot... expect to see it in the next DLC.

People will circumnavigate it with the reserve system, but meh, more power to them if they want to play like that. Not worth crippling the reserve system and punishing every player to stop a small minority from taking advantage of the system.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:54 pm
It does remind me to constantly put railroad lines onto scenarios, which is good behavior, because train movement is so rarely invoked, it's nice to have it not be totally lost and forgotten.

Though... not necessarily-necessary for 'PzC2'... 'Rail-Lines' in the actual Campaign... were absolutely-critically-necessary... as they were used to bring up 'Replacements_ Infantry-Tank-etc... also food, fuel, ammunition etc... as well as crews to repair damaged rail-lines.

I don't know if that 'Supply & Reinforcement' concept has any place in this Game?... anyway... there it is!.

Scrapulous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:30 pm Thanks for this, Stormchaser. It's great to have as a reference.

There is some other information that could be valuable:

• Total earnable commendation points per mission (i.e. "How many could I get here?")
• Total earnable commendation points so far (i.e. "How many could I have earned by this point?")
• Total remaining spendable commendation points per mission (i.e. "How much more value is there in chasing commendation points?")

I mention it in part because you mention that the Panzer 2 gift unit can be skipped. But it seems to me that's not really the whole evaluation. If I have more than enough CP to buy everything remaining, or expect to, then there is no reason not to take the gift. On the other hand, if not taking the Panzer 2 means I can expect to get everything else I want in the DLC, or if it means I can avoid the prestige sink, that might be a very worthwhile trade-off. Since CP don't transfer from DLC to DLC, the economy is very self-contained.

Excellent suggestion!
I actually just finished making the edits necessary to add those running tallies.
Unfortunately, my research was quick and dirty due to lack of time, and I noticed I made a mistake or two somewhere in the 1939 tally while editing the post (I pointed it out in the 1939 post itself), as it currently reads as giving you 4 Commendations too few to purchase every reward, and I know from experience that you can buy everything.
As I mentioned, I'll try to find my mistake soon, but I'm unfortunatly out of time for right now.

Retributarr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:13 pm I don't know if that 'Supply & Reinforcement' concept has any place in this Game?... anyway... there it is!.

Supply lines are arguably one of the most important differences between Panzer Corps and Panzer Corps 2. Making encirclements is game changing, quite literally.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:11 pm Running out of prestige is shitty, but having infinite surplus also takes away some important decision making elements of the game.

I'd go so far as to call prestige a failed design. It's either deeply unpleasant or irrelevant. That's not interesting in either direction.

In PC1, I played the DLC grand campaigns with a house rule that I could only buy one copy of new equipment when it was introduced, and then one more for every month that had passed since its introduction date. I made a spreadsheet out of the equipment file and scenario trees to track it. The game got way more interesting that way, and felt much more realistic than just instantly upgrading your entire tank force to the best available.

This is why I enjoy and play with the general trait that limits upgrades to three per mission.

It's also why I'd like to have the option to play with limited amounts of national equipment that gets renewed at regular intervals - but less as the war grinds on and shortages appear and factories are bombed. The prestige concept is weird and un-fun and doesn't really jive with reality, but limited equipment and manpower certainly does, throughout the war. And as for the fun factor, I certainly enjoyed my SCW playthrough with Denied Airforce and Denied Artillery and Retrograde traits much more than I did the SCW playthrough without those. I can't say that everybody would love it, but it's a feature that could be made optional. Just a thought.

Can someone tell me how you’re supposed to get both rewards at Saarbrucken while also getting the hero in scenario 2? I’m a few missions deep and it seems like you can’t make 12 commendation points before you kiss the chance for both things at Saarbruken. Can anyone confirm you can get 12 commendation in time to get both rewards? If yes, then is it just by getting all the bonus objectives done up until that point?

FunPolice749 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:57 pm Can someone tell me how you’re supposed to get both rewards at Saarbrucken while also getting the hero in scenario 2? I’m a few missions deep and it seems like you can’t make 12 commendation points before you kiss the chance for both things at Saarbruken. Can anyone confirm you can get 12 commendation in time to get both rewards? If yes, then is it just by getting all the bonus objectives done up until that point?

I noticed that myself when I did my quick and dirty calculations to math out how many you get, and considering Raate Road at least does give 2 Commendation instead of 1, I'm assuming some of the Bonus Obecjtives before Saarbrucken do the same.

I do know that my current 1939 game (the one I plan to take into future AOs) I have the Somua Gift Unit and both Heroes. So it has to be possible.

I should be able to go back through those early missions and will hopefully figure the math out later this evening.

Edit:
I did find that the Bonus Objectives to deploy all 6 Minefields and raiding St Avold and Orenthal in the 1st 3 French missions each give 2 Commendations instead of the usual 1. Add in the Raate Road Bonus Objectives giving 2 instead of 1 and the Commendations earned and spent break even.