Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

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WookieeDavidson
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:38 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

Post by WookieeDavidson »

kverdon wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:29 pm Moved on to "Brigade Box". Anther impossible, unwinnable scenario. The force to defend the "Brigade Box" has really no chance do the insane ammount of mobile nebelwerfer units the German sides. If 2 fire an any unit holding an objective hex, the until be forced to retreat even when backed up with either AT or Arty because it so suppressed. Instant loss. You can deploy 12 units. There will be 3 Panzerwerfer 42, 7 Panther Gs, 1 Tiger, 7 Pzkw IV H, 12 Inf attacking the "Brigade Box" way before you meager 5 units of the reinforcement group will be able to get there.

Again, obviously not tested. It just amazes me that someone would put this out for download without testing it or even really having a clear picture of how the game works. You would have a meager chance of pulling it off *IF* you only had to hold 2 of the 3 objective hexes, or they were evaluated at for control at the end of the scenario. Making the loss of a single objective hex is just poor design. It's going to happen to one of them with what you have coming against you. The enemy shows up on turn 2 so no time to dig in, especially since you only initially only can setup on 1 of the 3 objective hexes and, since it is raining, will take 2 turns to get units into position.

Looking at the scenario in the editor it gets more crazy. You also have to defeat another 8 or so infanty and a half dozen Jagdpanzer IV or Stug IV and capture to objectives, at far distant locations in 18 turns. Oh, yes, it rains 80% of the turns so movement is pretty slow. (it also makes taking any airpower a waste of time).

The scenario is not even a good representation of the actual battle. What should be happening in the scenario is that th e player corps (22nd Brigade 7th Armored) should be in the "Box" trying to defend and then there should be a set group of auxiliary units from the 50th Northumberland in the NW to make the attempt to break in an liberate the "Brigade Box".

Over the years I've played well designed scenarios like this that are nail biters right to the end and, if the player executes well you can just pull it off. This one does not fall into that category. It is just poorly designed.

I would ask that the designer, before they think about putting together another campaign, sit down and play one you design a few times and look at how it will play out without knowing all the details in advance. Perhaps have a friend or 2 test it first or at the very least put it out as an alpha or beta campaign and then be prepared to listen to the feedback and make the appropriate adjustments.
1st of all, thanks for the feedback, there a number of reasons as to why some of these scenarios are near impossible and its mostly due to my error; you are correct.

The campaign was designed back not too long after Spanish Civil War was released, so the game has updated fixing bugs and nerfing and buffing units of the German faction (the default faction the game focuses on) but when Spanish Civil War was released most of the units were balanced, with the exception of some of the bigger units (like the Tigers and Panthers etc) Obviously that was pretty much a year ago and a lot has changed since then.

Secondly, towards the end of making of this campaign i was going through some major Panzercorps burn out, designing the campaigns was becoming more tedious than realised, and COVID restrictions were starting to end and i would be returning to work, not to mention i was also working on 2 other campaigns (Italian one and a D-Day focused one) and the British one took a backseat after i had finished the African scenarios (you mentioned that it does start to become heavily unbalanced when you reached Italy) All of the scenarios were designed with historical accuracy in mind, so 80% of the units that were on that scenario were there IRL according to the order of battles and AARs that i had read.

Thirdly, feedback for my previous 2 campaigns showed that the campaigns were generally too easy, thinking of ways to balance a scenario is much more harder than people realise. I had tested the scenarios to a point and most of them seemed playable, shockingly however i am not a dedicated Panzercorps 2 player, i have barely finished 1939 Campaign myself and only recently completed SCW; but since i hadn't tested Big Red One or Taman Warriors and the campaigns seemed easy.

I will be going through and revamping these campaigns in due time. Try to remember however that these campaigns are effectivly a beta or alpha; much like with Big Red One i went through and made changes based on what bugs people had found, i understand your frustration but try to understand i am one man, not a developing team.
kverdon
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:38 am

Re: Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

Post by kverdon »

I understand you are one guy and that this is a lot of work for one person but if you are going to put out a great campaign that people will enjoy playing it does take alot of work. There are somethings that you could do to ease the frustration a bit however.

1. Play the scenarios through to the end. A couple of time. This is really critical as you can see how the flow of the scenario goes and be able to better gauge and see if the force/time mixture is on point. This will avoid the 52 monster of the Voluturno scenario. You may also find you have to adjust the aggressive of the units. The Goodwood scenario is a good example of this where the AI just suicides itself attacking infanty in the bocage. It was cool to see all the different units you included for the AI but 80% got wiped out by infantry units with a little AT backup in the bocage with little loss to the infantry. You can also see the prolonged effect of weather. While it may seem a good idea to make all the turns rain to remove the Allied TacAir, the effect of this may be to create mud conditions that make accomplishing the objectives in the given time impossible.

2. Something else you may want to consider is to either put out a call for testers for a campaign or title it with a 0.x version number to indicate it is still in testing. Putting something out as 1.0 is indicative that it's ready for prime time. Since you admit Panzer Corps 2 is not your fortay, getting some folks that know the game well to test it will be of great help. it takes alot of tweaking to get a scenario right, campaigns doubly so.
kverdon
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:38 am

Re: Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

Post by kverdon »

You should also check out my post in the General Forum about suicidal armor. You should pay close attention to the comments by Kerensky about unit aggressiveness. You have the opportunity here to learn from a master!
kverdon
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:38 am

Re: Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

Post by kverdon »

You should also check out my post in the General Forum about suicidal armor. You should pay close attention to the comments by Kerensky about unit aggressiveness. You have the opportunity here to learn from a master!
WookieeDavidson
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:38 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

Post by WookieeDavidson »

kverdon wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 2:52 pm 2. Something else you may want to consider is to either put out a call for testers for a campaign or title it with a 0.x version number to indicate it is still in testing. Putting something out as 1.0 is indicative that it's ready for prime time. Since you admit Panzer Corps 2 is not your fortay, getting some folks that know the game well to test it will be of great help. it takes alot of tweaking to get a scenario right, campaigns doubly so.
thats why i posted it here, the assumption that these campaigns are 100% ready to go is far fetched, the reason why its 1.0 is because its at the point i consider it complete, all 17 scenarios are complete, bug fixes and adjustments are made afterwards, to compare, i've made a D-Day campaign which is still ongoing, about 40% complete but i've placed beta in the title since i know its nowhere near completion.
Retributarr
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Campaign: The Desert Rats (17 Scenarios)

Post by Retributarr »

kverdon wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 5:09 am You should also check out my post in the General Forum about suicidal armor. You should pay close attention to the comments by Kerensky about unit aggressiveness. You have the opportunity here to learn from a master!


Yesss!!!... "Yoda Knows All!". You must learn 'Grasshopper'... so as to not be 'Grasshopper' anymore... but 'Killer-Attack-Dog'... so!... grow mighty...

Chant!... "I have 'Presence'!... I have 'Charm'!... I do 'Push-Ups'!... with 'One-Arm'!.
CptJackSparrow1993
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:05 pm

Steam version, plz?

Post by CptJackSparrow1993 »

Hey, wanted to tell you thanks for the hard work you put into creating these campaigns of yours. Also, wanted to ask if you could release this campaign on the Steam Workshop? I have the Steam version of PC2, and I've tried to get this campaign working with it to no avail. I'm really very excited to try several of your campaigns, but I can't get this one to work for some reason.

EDIT: Just read up on your latest replies regarding this campaign: I would think that a campaign for such a famous unit as the Desert Rats deserves some love. I would love to see you return to this campaign and do some touch up work on it - it hopefully won't be too long or tedious of a process, since much of the groundwork has already been laid down in your previous efforts. Then you could release an updated version (hopefully with a version on the Steam Workshop) that fixes the bugs and balance issues in order to bring new life to this wonderful looking campaign!

Cheers!
"Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech, and therefore is not a threat, is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old."
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