Dark Ages Britain Mod v1.7

stockwellpete
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by stockwellpete »

What has happened to my later Anglo-Saxon 800-1016 AD army and my 2 Viking 800-899 AD and 900-1016 AD armies please?

The new army that you are calling "Middle Anglo-Saxons" would not have fought major battles against the Vikings, what with horsemen and skirmishers etc in it, so presumably this is a 600-799 AD army that would have fought mainly against various British polities and the Welsh, is it?

Using the previous version of the mod that did have my armies in it, I have just lost 50-18 to the AI. I was playing as Anglo-Saxons. Very strange battle where the shield walls both broke in half so that 2 separate melees were happening in the second half of the battle. Although I was behind I was about to kill the Viking leader unit, when the Viking general changed units even though it was in melee. That's not meant to be like that, is it? These sorts of battles were like scrums so leaders could not move about easily in the thick of the fighting so once engaged the general should stay put. If I had killed the Viking general then it would have been interesting as "anarchy" and "refused orders" would have become a bigger factor.
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

stockwellpete wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:47 pm What has happened to my later Anglo-Saxon 800-1016 AD army and my 2 Viking 800-899 AD and 900-1016 AD armies please?

The new army that you are calling "Middle Anglo-Saxons" would not have fought major battles against the Vikings, what with horsemen and skirmishers etc in it, so presumably this is a 600-799 AD army that would have fought mainly against various British polities and the Welsh, is it?

Using the previous version of the mod that did have my armies in it, I have just lost 50-18 to the AI. I was playing as Anglo-Saxons. Very strange battle where the shield walls both broke in half so that 2 separate melees were happening in the second half of the battle. Although I was behind I was about to kill the Viking leader unit, when the Viking general changed units even though it was in melee. That's not meant to be like that, is it? These sorts of battles were like scrums so leaders could not move about easily in the thick of the fighting so once engaged the general should stay put. If I had killed the Viking general then it would have been interesting as "anarchy" and "refused orders" would have become a bigger factor.
I can make a separate version with the no lights or cav at all lists, and the different POA values you wanted, but that different interpretation of the saxon and viking lists I felt clashed with the mod as is and might confuse people coming to it and not realizing that there were two separate interpretations of the same warfare in one mod, leading to them potentially taking those lists against one another and not getting why one of them had no units other than offensive spears.

The Middle Anglo Saxon list is my understanding of the appx 600-900, maybe 600-800 area, anglo saxon lists. Welsh mercenaries and saxon mounted units are mentioned in most of the sources I'm looking at, and I don't think a list entirely devoid of lights or cavalry is correct in my interpretation. I've locally made both a later anglo saxon list without nearly as much cavalry or lights, and more heavy infantry with armor and huscarls w/ dane axes as well, and a between saxon raider and middle anglo saxon list that mixes warbands and shield walls a bit as a conjectural transitional list covering a brief period.

Yes, the mod permits moving the general one square while in combat, as contrasted with 4 while out of combat to represent the not being able to move as far in the scrum, but that has been in since the first version of the mod.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
stockwellpete
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by stockwellpete »

Schweetness101 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:07 pm I can make a separate version with the no lights or cav at all lists, and the different POA values you wanted, but that different interpretation of the saxon and viking lists I felt clashed with the mod as is and might confuse people coming to it and not realizing that there were two separate interpretations of the same warfare in one mod, leading to them potentially taking those lists against one another and not getting why one of them had no units other than offensive spears.
OK, I understand. Is there a way of presenting my different take on the later Anglo-Saxon and Viking armies in a separate menu, or something? If not, I suppose it could be separated out into a completely separate mod? I basically have been playing and testing them at 600pts, so could they be listed as "a minis mod" or something similar. I am not sure I have got the balance exactly right yet, but it is not far off. I think it gives a slightly different game and shows the range of things that are possible in a mod. I would like to add an army morale check feature if an army has no leaders left alive or un-routed as this will add pressure to the decision about how many generals to take. This would be a whole army check, not an individual unit check. Either they all go, or they all stay.
Yes, the mod permits moving the general one square while in combat, as contrasted with 4 while out of combat to represent the not being able to move as far in the scrum, but that has been in since the first version of the mod.
I think I would prefer it that a leader could not move at all if it is in a melee at the start of a turn. If you decide to separate the mods out then this would be do-able, otherwise not.
The Middle Anglo Saxon list is my understanding of the appx 600-900, maybe 600-800 area, anglo saxon lists. Welsh mercenaries and saxon mounted units are mentioned in most of the sources I'm looking at, and I don't think a list entirely devoid of lights or cavalry is correct in my interpretation. I've locally made both a later anglo saxon list without nearly as much cavalry or lights, and more heavy infantry with armor and huscarls w/ dane axes as well, and a between saxon raider and middle anglo saxon list that mixes warbands and shield walls a bit as a conjectural transitional list covering a brief period.
OK, I think we are quite far apart on this interpretation then, which is fair enough. From reading Halsall, i think there is an interesting contrast to be made in Anglo-Saxon armies between those fighting before 800 AD against Welsh, Britons and other Anglo-Saxons and those fighting after 800 AD against the Vikings.
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

stockwellpete wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:00 am Is there a way of presenting my different take on the later Anglo-Saxon and Viking armies in a separate menu, or something? If not, I suppose it could be separated out into a completely separate mod? I basically have been playing and testing them at 600pts, so could they be listed as "a minis mod" or something similar. I am not sure I have got the balance exactly right yet, but it is not far off. I think it gives a slightly different game and shows the range of things that are possible in a mod. I would like to add an army morale check feature if an army has no leaders left alive or un-routed as this will add pressure to the decision about how many generals to take. This would be a whole army check, not an individual unit check. Either they all go, or they all stay.
Yeah it would have to be a separate mod, especially as it would have distinct POA values for some capabilities. And, do you mean a roll for if you just automatically lose once the last general dies or routs?

stockwellpete wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:00 am I think I would prefer it that a leader could not move at all if it is in a melee at the start of a turn. If you decide to separate the mods out then this would be do-able, otherwise not.
yeah that's possible.
stockwellpete wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:00 am OK, I think we are quite far apart on this interpretation then, which is fair enough. From reading Halsall, i think there is an interesting contrast to be made in Anglo-Saxon armies between those fighting before 800 AD against Welsh, Britons and other Anglo-Saxons and those fighting after 800 AD against the Vikings.
Locally I now have these lists for anglo saxons:

Saxon Raiders: 400-550 AD warband list

Early Anglo Saxon: 550-650 AD speculative transitional list that has a few superior warband, 2 unarmored saxon riders, and early general fyrd that is raw defensive spears, and an early shieldwall select fyrd that are offensive spears but warriors rather than undrilled heavy foot, so behave a little differently (both in terrain and more anarchic).

middle anglo saxon: 650-800 AD about like the one on the current public version, with more lights, armored and unarmored cav, lightly equipped medium foot fyrd, hearthweru, offensive spearmen for both general and select fyrd, etc...

late anglo saxon: 800-1000 AD huscarls have replaced hearthweru and are in greater numbers, there are higher proportions of select fyrd, and also includes the better equipped select fyrd that is above average and some armor rather than average and protected, but fewer lights (mostly raw geburas slingers), no light horse, and only one or two armored riders for cav.

and mountable versions of the latter two
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

The mod has been updated to a new v1.2

download link: [deprecated]

This version adds some new army lists and unit skins, and makes various fixes and tweaks to unit stats and costs, anarchy charges, AI and other improvements.

-edits to the Late Roman list to have a few fewer lancers and foederati, and removed the cost increase for lancers, and some edits to their ranged units
-edits to the Norse Irish list to remove a few of their superior units and to return Irish Foot to a warrior rather than undrilled heavy foot classification, as they were previously a bit too able to stand up to shieldwall in the open. HW cost increase reduced somewhat
-number and type of lights changed across quite a few lists
-Early Anglo-Saxon warband list renamed Saxon Raiders, and Early Anglo-Saxon is now a new transitional list, and also added a Late Anglo-Saxon list
-units will not anarchy charge the same target on the same turn, or the same target two turns in a row, to mitigate some issues with anarchy charge exploits and bugs
-fixed issue where sometimes generals selected in MP were not available in deployment (you cannot select units during enemy's replay time in MP now, which is what was causing the issue)
-various AI fixes to make them more compatible with anarchy, refuse, and shooting changes, and to make enemy mediums and warriors prefer terrain a bit more, and to make them deploy foot skirmishers out front rather than to the wings
-POA changes to various units tweaked
-and lots of other miscellaneous fixes, see the updated pdf at the above link for the full mod changelist

I think the mod is now very close to being basically complete. I may improve or update unit and army texts, or tweak some costs or other balance issues or bugs that may come up based on feedback, but I don't intend to make any more substantial changes after this point. I may make some scenarios for it later.
Last edited by Schweetness101 on Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
kronenblatt
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by kronenblatt »

Cool! I'll try it out once back from holidays week after next week.
kronenblatt's campaign and tournament thread hub:

https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108643
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

The mod has been updated to a new v1.3

download link: [deprecated]

Flank Changes:
-altered the flank changes inherited from the alt mod to only apply to units in full shield wall. IE, flanks are now like in vanilla except vs units in full shield wall (only full, not partial, shield wall). Units in full shield wall only suffer the +100 POA, but no auto drop, from an exactly 90 degree flank. They will still suffer the normal autodrop from a flank that starts at all behind them and so counts as a rear charge. Hopefully, this motivates maintaining the integrity of the shield wall even more, as the relative advantage is now even greater. Let me know if this change is confusing, as it has been in my experience very common for forum-goers to completely misunderstand what this and similar flank changes do. Tooltips and combat logs were also updated to reflect this change. ***let me know if you experience any weird side effects from this, or incorrect flanks results.
-decreased line of sight by half. You will likely notice this on the first turn of a new game, and if you or your opponent choose to move units further around the edge of the map, or on larger maps, where they will now be easier to hide. This change is somewhat experimental, but the effects have been good so far I think, as in vanilla LOS is such that you can more or less see the whole map at all times excepting wooded areas or on very large maps.

Random Skirmish Battle changes:
-got rid of chance to have random 'flanking force' in vs ai skirmishes
-fixed occasionally getting 1+1/1 rather than 0/2 for extra generals *may sometimes occur still, not super thoroughly tested
-changed default base points so medium on II difficulty gives 60 pts to player to account for 2x extra general costs, as the AI does not buy generals (you can still of course -change the points to whatever manually)

Army List and Unit changes:
-put armor of mounted versions of fyrd back to their normal values, nerf now just from quality and capabilities, and they don't anarchy charge (they are only for mobility)
-fixed number of men in arty units to be 1/4 like other units
-returned anglo-saxon warrrior unit to undrilled heavy foot from old warrior status, and 42 cost, but still warriors for anarchy
-changed early anglo-saxon list to 2 superior and 2 average warband rather than 4 superior
-edited number of huscarls on viking and late anglo saxon lists
-edited no pushback in shieldwall code a bit, to include enemy check too, so pushbacks of a steady unit in full shieldwall should be very rare
-various unit flavor text updates as per kronenblatt
-added 25 to impact foot POA for balance against other changes
-various changes to numbers and types of light units on anglo-saxon lists

Anarchy Changes:
-a unit won't anarchy charge an enemy already anarchy charged by another unit this turn
-the same unit will not anarchy charge the same enemy two turns in a row
-defensive spears do not anarchy
-removed loss of AP from being anarchy charged during start turn
*these changes should remove some of the more annoying or exploitable bits of anarchy charging while keeping the general flavor and tactics around goading warriors with it etc...

AI:
-changed AI deployment to put foot skirmishers in front and center of the infantry line, and cav skirmishers in front of the ai cav flank
-changed AI deployment to deploy largely with one heavy cav wing to one side a bit further out, and to go further past and around the player's foot if able to for a wide flank.
-changed AI infantry advance to maintain formation a bit longer before picking targets, and changed the conditions under which they find a target to move to, so not trying to route to far away enemies or enemies through their own units, which sometimes jumbles up vanilla AI a lot.
-fixed ai being able to refuse orders and then still shoot
-made them a bit more aggressive and more likely to start moving towards the player early and not just sit there under fire for the first few turns
-removed mediums and warriors AI from ActivelySeeksTerrain() from previous version

Map Changes:
-made agricultural more open and less hillly
-made hilly maps more hilly
-made woodland maps more wooded
-almost removed the possibility of coastal or river maps, and made streams appearing much less likely ***kind of experimental but definitely results in fewer annoying maps
Last edited by Schweetness101 on Wed May 04, 2022 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

removed as not really relevant
Last edited by Schweetness101 on Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
SnuggleBunnies
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by SnuggleBunnies »

That's weird. All I've posted in my video description is a link to the OP
SnuggleBunny's Field of Glory II / Medieval / Pike and Shot / Sengoku Jidai MP Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjUQy6dEqR53NwoGgjxixLg
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

removed as not really relevant
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

I'm not really able to work on this right now, but I'm curious, given that there are a decent number of downloads, if there's anybody out there with any feedback for the mod right now?
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

NOTE: this mod may no longer be functioning with the latest version of FoG 2, but I won't likely have time to fix it for awhile, just fyi
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
skc
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by skc »

Yes I updated Fog2 to the latest today, then added the mod, but get CTD and error message. When you have the time, look forward to update.
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

this may work now:
[DELETED]
let me know if it does or does not work for you. it's 'v1.4' but all it does is try to resolve the compile issues causes by superfluous parentheses in the most recent build of FoG2.
Last edited by Schweetness101 on Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
skc
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by skc »

Nope, although I seem to get to the scenario list now. (but clicking on one goes CTD. Unfortunately can't copy error message as mouse does not go over it) No pressure to sort out. whenever you have time to do.
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

skc wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:16 am Nope, although I seem to get to the scenario list now. (but clicking on one goes CTD. Unfortunately can't copy error message as mouse does not go over it) No pressure to sort out. whenever you have time to do.
ok thanks, you could take a snip of the error, but does it mention a line like:
cost = CheckFallBackPossible(me, x2, y2, 0); // v1.3.57 change. Fallback
?

edit: nvm figured it out
Last edited by Schweetness101 on Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

skc wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:16 am Nope, although I seem to get to the scenario list now. (but clicking on one goes CTD. Unfortunately can't copy error message as mouse does not go over it) No pressure to sort out. whenever you have time to do.
how about this: https://dl.orangedox.com/W9pipmKKU8mYzNhU5s
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

the 1.4v of this mod does work with the latest version of FoG2 btw. If anyone is interested in some MP games with it, I've hosted a few.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
kronenblatt
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by kronenblatt »

Why "mountable" versions of "Middle Anglo-Saxon" and "Late Anglo-Saxon": is that in order to accomodate to stockwellpete's opinions?

Which one would be the most historically correct: "mountable" or not?
kronenblatt's campaign and tournament thread hub:

https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108643
Schweetness101
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Re: Dark Ages Britain Mod

Post by Schweetness101 »

kronenblatt wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:18 pm Why "mountable" versions of "Middle Anglo-Saxon" and "Late Anglo-Saxon": is that in order to accomodate to stockwellpete's opinions?

Which one would be the most historically correct: "mountable" or not?
The mountable armies can optionally mount their dismounted infantry only in deployment (select fyrdmen, huscarls, etc...it will say which units), so that they can be moved as mounted infantry at the start of the game, to give some flavor of the greater mobility of mounted infantry at the operational level of war. They don't fight well mounted, and once dismounted they cannot mount again.
My Mods:
Ancient Greek https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977908#p977908
Dark Ages Britain https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106417
Anarchy (Medieval) https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=987488#p987488
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