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Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 1:54 am
by melm
I've read several sources stating that the limitanei is not farmer soldiers but standing army which is just not mobile. The example given is that the limitaei's performance in Amida siege in AD 359. The Sassanid army captured the city with great loss. I think limitanei's quality can be boosted to average as the same as the comitatenses. Its price may be increased to 36 pts.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:01 am
by rbodleyscott
melm wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:54 am
I've read several sources stating that the limitanei is not farmer soldiers but standing army which is just not mobile. The example given is that the limitaei's performance in Amida siege in AD 359. The Sassanid army captured the city with great loss. I think limitanei's quality can be boosted to average as the same as the comitatenses. Its price may be increased to 36 pts.
Even if they were standing army, garrison soldiers tend to deteriorate. This was often said of the legions stationed in Egypt in earlier centuries.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:18 pm
by julianbarker
I don't think I have ever bought Limitanei because of their raw status. Does anyone do this? I don't think I have ever seen a situation where they looked better value than other more reliable units. Does anyone buy them?
I am not saying that raw Limitanei don't have a place, and they obviously belong in the list, but isn't their also a place for some better Limitanei? Some of the must have moved on from raw if they were living on and garrisoning a frontier.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:29 pm
by julianbarker
'Even if they were standing army, garrison soldiers tend to deteriorate. This was often said of the legions stationed in Egypt in earlier centuries.'
True, but there are plenty of examples of frontier garrison troops on active frontiers becoming elite. It is all down to timing and circumstance. It is not inevitable that all Roman frontier troops were not effective well trained and motivated.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:23 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
julianbarker wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 8:18 pm
I don't think I have ever bought Limitanei because of their raw status. Does anyone do this? I don't think I have ever seen a situation where they looked better value than other more reliable units. Does anyone buy them?
I am not saying that raw Limitanei don't have a place, and they obviously belong in the list, but isn't their also a place for some better Limitanei? Some of the must have moved on from raw if they were living on and garrisoning a frontier.
Limatanei are an excellent buy, I often max them out. 24pts is a steal - 1 palatina or 3 limatanei? They can hold out long enough against cavalry, cut down archers and the like, and generally take up space and ammo and be annoying, lengthening the line where needed.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 5:56 pm
by julianbarker
Fair challenge. I should give them more of a chance.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 1:16 pm
by melm
If the game can show the deteriorating trend from Contantine to Justinian, it will be great. Say from Constantine to Honorius, average, from Honorius to Valentinian III, below average, then to the time of Justinian, raw. Well, if the unit slots is not enough, so be it.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 5:27 am
by Dux Limitis
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:01 am
melm wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:54 am
I've read several sources stating that the limitanei is not farmer soldiers but standing army which is just not mobile. The example given is that the limitaei's performance in Amida siege in AD 359. The Sassanid army captured the city with great loss. I think limitanei's quality can be boosted to average as the same as the comitatenses. Its price may be increased to 36 pts.
Even if they were standing army, garrison soldiers tend to deteriorate. This was often said of the legions stationed in Egypt in earlier centuries.
I think we should add the pseudocomitatenses to the list,as they are as the same quality as the comitatenses,the other limitanei should stay as below average or raw.
Re: Raw Limitanei theory may be out-of-date
Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:24 am
by rbodleyscott
Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 5:27 am
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:01 am
melm wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:54 am
I've read several sources stating that the limitanei is not farmer soldiers but standing army which is just not mobile. The example given is that the limitaei's performance in Amida siege in AD 359. The Sassanid army captured the city with great loss. I think limitanei's quality can be boosted to average as the same as the comitatenses. Its price may be increased to 36 pts.
Even if they were standing army, garrison soldiers tend to deteriorate. This was often said of the legions stationed in Egypt in earlier centuries.
I think we should add the pseudocomitatenses to the list,as they are as the same quality as the comitatenses,the other limitanei should stay as below average or raw.
That would be the best solution.