The "Victorious" Tournament

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pupski
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by pupski »

I think it is kinda important to give each scenario a solo test drive at least, to see what is to be expected. They are all available to play hotseated. It was good to see that there are still small differences like that paratroopers can not be deployed in the sky like in the hotseat version. If you don't know about St-Lo it can feel a bit like cheat but if both players are aware of it's value it gives interesting attack and defend options. I like it the way it is but it would be extra good if the US player is very aware of the point value of St-Lo. "Be aware of the coming possible German counter attack on our most valued staging ground St-Lo" or something like that. Haha, or maybe not...
Celeborn
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Celeborn »

There are def trade-offs in scenario design, though I think the ability of a defender to deploy at the front is the lesser evil when the space in question is in/adj to a large VP space. If St Lo weren't worth 100VP then the non-deploy seems ok, but to have it worth so much, not be able to deploy there to defend, and not be able to regain the VP by recapturing is kind of ugh. All that does not negate the onus on the player to pay attention in the briefing and the Objective descriptions...is more about the play experience than remedying some balance deficiency.

On a more general note the way St Lo is handled puts a pretty high premium on having experience with the scenario. This is not an inherently bad thing but I prefer scenarios where you can come in without knowing the "tricks" and achieve success by a good overall strategy buttressed by effective tactical execution.

I am really enjoying this tournament and look forward to the next!
AdmiralYamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

stevefprice wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:58 pm
bebro wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:49 am
It's WAD in the sense that you get the 100 pts for taking a staging ground (as pupski said). In theory taking one of the German stagin ground would give you 100 as well (if it's achievable is another q', given that they're more behind).
Is it always 100 points or prorate subject to turns?

I've just done it to my opponent and score went to 110VP, but I was on way more than 10VP before I took it.
I believe that the capture of any gold star "staging ground" is prorated based on when it is taken. The value of the objective starts at about 120 pts if captured on turn 1 and loses 7 VP per turn there after. IE, turn 2 it is worth 113, turn 3 it is worth 108, etc.

I believe this has been the same for all three of these tournament scenarios. It is just more noticeable in the Cobra scenario because there is a much more realistic chance of capturing a gold star objective (St. Lo) very early on. This is the first time I have seen a primary objective this close to the front. It definitely peaked my interest in figuring out if it could be taken quickly.

Practicing the scenario using Hot Seat definitely allows a player to be better prepared. I am not opposed though to a "Blind" scenario with out the ability to Hot Seat practice as long as it applies to everyone.
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Celeborn
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Celeborn »

I suspect Omistaja is going to win the tournament and you can cite my bungling as a primary reason. To somehow allow paratroops to take a location when you seem them coming three turns in advance is without a doubt the low point of my OOB career. Sigh.
omistaja
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by omistaja »

Celeborn wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:48 am I suspect Omistaja is going to win the tournament and you can cite my bungling as a primary reason. To somehow allow paratroops to take a location when you seem them coming three turns in advance is without a doubt the low point of my OOB career. Sigh.
That bunker is hard to defend. But I think that you're playing so well that I can't get those 700 points.
And I have to admit that I had tested the scenario. :oops:
Shards
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Shards »

Had you blown up the bridges behind you, stopping your forces from being able to fall back to help?

I think I'll survive Vatutin's paradrop purely by having a flakpanzer that is scooting around behind my lines to attack them both in the air and on the ground
blondus
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by blondus »

This evening I have problems charging the scenario. It's just me?

Edit: now it's ok, just to update steam last version :D
Ranger65
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Ranger65 »

First, really enjoyed the tournament, even though I did not play particularly well. I am looking forward to the next.

A final thought on the high VP value of St. Lo in the Cobra scenario, a better solution may simply be a high value point per turn of occupation for the attacker. In other words, the German player gets 7 points per turn he/she controls St Lo. This way, if the the player gains the hex early and can hold the hex, a large VP will be gained over the course of the game. If the Americans can take their staging hex back, the per turn VP is lost. This gives bonus for getting it early but incentives to retake it.
AdmiralYamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

omistaja wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:43 am
Celeborn wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:48 am I suspect Omistaja is going to win the tournament and you can cite my bungling as a primary reason. To somehow allow paratroops to take a location when you seem them coming three turns in advance is without a doubt the low point of my OOB career. Sigh.
That bunker is hard to defend. But I think that you're playing so well that I can't get those 700 points.
And I have to admit that I had tested the scenario. :oops:
Don't count me out quite yet Celeborn. By my calculations I still have a shot at 700. I figured I was out of it after those monster numbers people put up in the first round. With you and Rth not figuring out the St Lo gambit, it has opened things up for me. Congrats to all those who saw the VP possibility at St Lo.

This is the first Victorious tournament scenario I've had a chance to practice. This allowed me to setup the capture of St Lo on turn 2 and I have not given it back yet. It is a bit odd to have a primary objective on the front line but it has made this one very interesting.

My games still have 6 turns left. Cagi has a very odd schedule I guess. We did not get started until day 4 of this round. We got 3 good days of turns in then he was gone again for 3 more days. I believe we have the usual 6+ hours of separation between the US and Europe. I even took off work half a day yesterday to get a 2nd turn in with him. He is a no show so far on Saturday. I project that if we finish, my total may exceed the 700 pts Lynx has set.
Admiral Yamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

My opponent showed up on Sunday and crushed my hopes for an easy 700 points. My paratroop drop failed to capture Granville due to the German infantry hiding in it. I doubt that I can take it with just one Paratrooper and some planes. I still have 3 turns left though to rack up some more points.
Admiral Yamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Shards »

I'm very happy to get to 600 in total, especially after the Caen debacle!
omistaja
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by omistaja »

AdmiralYamamoto wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:56 pm I still have 3 turns left though to rack up some more points.
Well it's apparent then, I have only 1 and half turns left. And I'm mostly defending now, so I'm not going to be able to make several kills. I try to get 700.
Shards
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Shards »

From looking at the server, I think that the Admiral has two turns of movement left and is on 697 points...
AdmiralYamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

Hope you make it to 700 Omistaja! I am very impressed with your Cobra score especially since it was against Celeborn. He is an awesome player.

I managed to make it to 710. I was able to rack up quite a few kills at the end. I believe that Cagi had pretty much run out of money. He made some big purchases early on. He even bought one of those massive B29's which my Germans could do almost nothing against. I managed to get some AA shots at it once but that was it.

I will try to post replays of my games later.
Admiral Yamamoto
Celeborn
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Celeborn »

I like that idea!

Ranger65 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:37 am First, really enjoyed the tournament, even though I did not play particularly well. I am looking forward to the next.

A final thought on the high VP value of St. Lo in the Cobra scenario, a better solution may simply be a high value point per turn of occupation for the attacker. In other words, the German player gets 7 points per turn he/she controls St Lo. This way, if the the player gains the hex early and can hold the hex, a large VP will be gained over the course of the game. If the Americans can take their staging hex back, the per turn VP is lost. This gives bonus for getting it early but incentives to retake it.
Celeborn
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by Celeborn »

I'd like to think I learned a few things about how to size up a scenario after completely missing the "St Lo Gambit" After the debacle of the final scenario I will be lucky to finish fifth and certainly feel like I should have placed lower.

On a whiny note I will say that I don't like scenarios where ahistorical para drops can make such a difference but I suspect most others like the opportunities they present; victory does typically favor the bold...
AdmiralYamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

Celeborn wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:20 am I like that idea!

Ranger65 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:37 am First, really enjoyed the tournament, even though I did not play particularly well. I am looking forward to the next.

A final thought on the high VP value of St. Lo in the Cobra scenario, a better solution may simply be a high value point per turn of occupation for the attacker. In other words, the German player gets 7 points per turn he/she controls St Lo. This way, if the the player gains the hex early and can hold the hex, a large VP will be gained over the course of the game. If the Americans can take their staging hex back, the per turn VP is lost. This gives bonus for getting it early but incentives to retake it.
I too think this is a pretty good idea. I would suggest though that there still be some initial VP bonus for first taking the objective, maybe 20 points.
Admiral Yamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

Celeborn wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:29 am I'd like to think I learned a few things about how to size up a scenario after completely missing the "St Lo Gambit" After the debacle of the final scenario I will be lucky to finish fifth and certainly feel like I should have placed lower.

On a whiny note I will say that I don't like scenarios where ahistorical para drops can make such a difference but I suspect most others like the opportunities they present; victory does typically favor the bold...
I think Paradrops are very risky and hard to justify. There are just too many ways to defend against one if the transport planes are sighted. Seldom is there a path that keeps the planes hidden until the last moment. I have been successful once but it was nerve wracking the whole time.
Admiral Yamamoto
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by AdmiralYamamoto »

Here are replays of my Cobra games.
Cobra AY vs Cagi 2.zip
(10.74 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
Cobra AY vs Cagi 1.zip
(11 KiB) Downloaded 27 times
Admiral Yamamoto
wikman
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Re: The "Victorious" Tournament

Post by wikman »

i really enjoyed this torunamnet, im very happy with my ranking, its the highest one i have achieved in any tournmanet.

looking forward to the next one
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