Slitherine

As many people have found out 25mm scale HF rarely fits very well on the standard base sizes. Since I can't cram the figures on the standard base size would most people prefer 4 figures to a 30mm deep base or 3 figures to a standard size base? Which option would you prefer your enemy to be using? Which would be easier for people to identify the difference between HF and MF?

if you're looking at a 28mm figure and can't tell what it is?

then it's either a crap paint job or your opponent has conducted an awkward morph...

OldenTired wrote:if you're looking at a 28mm figure and can't tell what it is?

then it's either a crap paint job or your opponent has conducted an awkward morph...

I was thinking more along the lines of something like hoplites could be either MF or HF and your opponent not being able to tell which they are rather than the opponent not being able to tell a hoplite is a hoplite.

flameberge wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of something like hoplites could be either MF or HF and your opponent not being able to tell which they are rather than the opponent not being able to tell a hoplite is a hoplite.

Yes, if there is a chance of it being mixed up then you have to have some easy way of clarrifying. Personally, I don't think base size is much of an issue or the number of figures on a base - just so long as it is clear what each troop type is. It isn't like there is any more than 16 BG's in a standard army, and most of them are pretty similar types.

Naturally, if you do something somewhat strange you have to clarrify clearly throughout the game so that the player knows what they are.

You don't have to throw the game away by showing your hand overly, but you do have to make it clear what kind of troops you're running. "Every foot in my army is Medium Foot, except the pike which are Heavy" -or- "The knights are only armoured, even though they have barding" -or- these are Cataphracts, even though they only have 3 to a base, I couldn't fit four on.

I use 10mm figures on 15mm basing. I'm yet to have a problem with what the troops are. I'm building a 25mm Medieval Danish army, and basing the Heavy Foot on deeper bases and putting 3 to a base because I can't fit the right number on. One of my opponents is saying that it will be confusing, but I can't see how. NOTHING in the army is Medium foot except the second rank of the heavies, so nobody shoudl have a problem. If they do, well, build a bridge. It's a bloody game of toy soldiers. Things are taken way too seriously in this hobby.

flameberge wrote:

OldenTired wrote:if you're looking at a 28mm figure and can't tell what it is?

then it's either a crap paint job or your opponent has conducted an awkward morph...

I was thinking more along the lines of something like hoplites could be either MF or HF and your opponent not being able to tell which they are rather than the opponent not being able to tell a hoplite is a hoplite.

ahhh...do you not declare all the BG as they're put down?

OldenTired wrote:

flameberge wrote:

OldenTired wrote:if you're looking at a 28mm figure and can't tell what it is?

then it's either a crap paint job or your opponent has conducted an awkward morph...

I was thinking more along the lines of something like hoplites could be either MF or HF and your opponent not being able to tell which they are rather than the opponent not being able to tell a hoplite is a hoplite.

ahhh...do you not declare all the BG as they're put down?

I see what you're saying Old, but I can also see what the wavy sword is saying too.

If all troops are based the same then it can be confusing that some are mediums and some are heavies. There has to be a way of distinguishing them.

OldenTired wrote:

flameberge wrote:

OldenTired wrote:if you're looking at a 28mm figure and can't tell what it is?

then it's either a crap paint job or your opponent has conducted an awkward morph...

I was thinking more along the lines of something like hoplites could be either MF or HF and your opponent not being able to tell which they are rather than the opponent not being able to tell a hoplite is a hoplite.

ahhh...do you not declare all the BG as they're put down?

Yes, I always declare what my troops are as I deploy them, and all my opponents have also done the same. That includes all the HMGS tournaments that I have played in. Assuming you make these declarations, and I think to do so is pretty standard (and probably even required by the rules), then I don't see a problem with almost any base depth variations made to accommodate figure size or even WAB style basing.

All the above said, I still don't have major difficulties fitting 4 figs on a 60 x 20 base in 28mm.

Peter C

OldenTired wrote:

flameberge wrote:

OldenTired wrote:if you're looking at a 28mm figure and can't tell what it is?

then it's either a crap paint job or your opponent has conducted an awkward morph...

I was thinking more along the lines of something like hoplites could be either MF or HF and your opponent not being able to tell which they are rather than the opponent not being able to tell a hoplite is a hoplite.

ahhh...do you not declare all the BG as they're put down?

I do declare them as I put them down but when your opponent describes lots of different troops you can sometimes loose track of whats what. So I was interested in whether people found it easier to see the difference with base size or figure count. I know MF can be 4/stand but I've never seen that done in 25mm.

flameberge wrote:I do declare them as I put them down but when your opponent describes lots of different troops you can sometimes loose track of whats what. So I was interested in whether people found it easier to see the difference with base size or figure count. I know MF can be 4/stand but I've never seen that done in 25mm.

Another thought, if you make some kind of 'theme' in your army, so long as it is constant I don't think you'll find anyone with a problem. For instance, if all light have 1 figure, all mediums have 2 figures and all heavies have 3 figures then people can see that and understand fairly quickly and easily. Naturally, if you did that it would be prudent to remind people every couple of turns "remember these are mediums, not light" etc.

flameberge wrote:I do declare them as I put them down but when your opponent describes lots of different troops you can sometimes loose track of whats what. So I was interested in whether people found it easier to see the difference with base size or figure count. I know MF can be 4/stand but I've never seen that done in 25mm.

My complication in that case is that I occasionally use my troops for games of Warrior. For that game system, the number of figures per base does matter - 3 figures for irregular (undrilled) medium foot and 4 for regular (drilled). Since I like to use my troops for multiple rules systems, I base them for the most restrictive one. If you intend to only use your troops for FoG, then once again, I would not have a problem with your scheme if I was your opponent.

Peter C

I do declare them as I put them down but when your opponent describes lots of different troops you can sometimes loose track of whats what. So I was interested in whether people found it easier to see the difference with base size or figure count. I know MF can be 4/stand but I've never seen that done in 25mm.

How is this different that horse? Knights, cataphracts, and cavalry can be all three to a base. How do we distinquish them? Armored bow/sword cavalry will often have a lance, but no lance POA. Seljuks and similiar armies will somtimes have lance armed Arab or Kurdish armored cavalry that look very simliar to Ghilman, especially in 15mm. The only reason MF and HF are based differently is because this is the convention carried over from previous editions of WRG.

Hal

pcelella wrote:

flameberge wrote:I do declare them as I put them down but when your opponent describes lots of different troops you can sometimes loose track of whats what. So I was interested in whether people found it easier to see the difference with base size or figure count. I know MF can be 4/stand but I've never seen that done in 25mm.

My complication in that case is that I occasionally use my troops for games of Warrior. For that game system, the number of figures per base does matter - 3 figures for irregular (undrilled) medium foot and 4 for regular (drilled). Since I like to use my troops for multiple rules systems, I base them for the most restrictive one. If you intend to only use your troops for FoG, then once again, I would not have a problem with your scheme if I was your opponent.

Peter C

My suggestion would be to make your bases enough deeper than specified to fit the normal number of figures. To differentiate between HF and MF, you could also make you MF bases a bit deeper than specified so you can still differentiate by differing base depths. (Maybe try 25mm deep for HF and 35mm deep for MF.)

Since WRG 5th edition (late 70's) my Byzantine cavalry is all on 50mm deep bases rather than the standard 40mm deep bases and I've never had this be an issue in playing WRG, DBM or FoG.

Chris

The real problem with 28mm figures and the current basing scheme for heavy infantry, is not the width of the stand (60mm) but the depth. As an alternative I think 60mm x25mm with four figure to a heavy infantry base would be the best solution.

Mike B

We discovered the problems with cramming minies into less than is needed space. WE voted before we started to not rebase hundreds of foot and cav. They are still based on 20mm square bases. When playing FoG we always have used heavies 3 minies per 60mm long base. Our heavies do look like heavies.

We place small pieces of paper with the BG's info on them with our units/BGs. It works just fine....for us. IF, again if, we compete somewhere/time/etc we will communicate in advance to see if our armies can compete.

CrazyHarborc wrote:We discovered the problems with cramming minies into less than is needed space. WE voted before we started to not rebase hundreds of foot and cav. They are still based on 20mm square bases. When playing FoG we always have used heavies 3 minies per 60mm long base. Our heavies do look like heavies.

We place small pieces of paper with the BG's info on them with our units/BGs. It works just fine....for us. IF, again if, we compete somewhere/time/etc we will communicate in advance to see if our armies can compete.

So your Cav are on 25mm wide bases? Any issues with BG matchups?

Anthony