Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90)

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bru888
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bru888 »

LNDavoust wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:40 pm Hello there, folks! . . . Cheers to you, pals!
You, sir, are a sight for sore eyes. I am looking forward to the next version of this great project. Please keep going and do indeed finish it to your satisfaction. I will treasure it as an example of how great this game could have been in other venues. Thanks.
- Bru
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by Erik2 »

Indeed. Welcome back!
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by MarechalJoffre »

Welcome back! More than willing to give feedback on the new edition of the mod.
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

To both Bru and Erik, thanks for the welcome! :D
MarechalJoffre wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:07 pm Welcome back! More than willing to give feedback on the new edition of the mod.
Thanks too, Joffre. It will be ready within the next couple of weeks, I hope :) Your offer is very much appreciated, as I suspect there is room for improvement, specially regarding the incoming RP balance and the enemy IA in the final (still-untested for others than me) scenarios :shock:
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

I know it's unlikely these answers will arrive at their destination after so many months, but I feel obligated to thank at least some of the kind people who leave their posts here during my leave.
redforest wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:50 pm I just wanted to say, I'm a few scenarios into this and it's awesome. these scenarios are better and more interesting than a lot of official dlc scenarios I've played. it's so much more fun to use weak units and slowly build them up, and use air, naval and ground forces together in the same scenario. the spec tree is cool too. thanks.
Wow, thank you for your kind words, reforest. I'm clearly not worthy of so much praise, but It pleases me so you had some fun with my little creature :). The slow build-up of the core force is one of the aspects I enjoy more of OoB kind of games, while the combined arms warfare is one of the strong point of OoB compared with similar titles, so I tried to take advantage of both in the mod/campaign: very glad it worked, at least for you, mate. Again thanks a lot!
CPI986 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:27 pm Good eve to all! I hope this mod remains well in hand with the development, it plays fantastically. Keep up the pace with this mod, it is truly grand!
Well, thank you so much for the positive feedback, CPI986, very happy you liked it :)
Nordlingen1634 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:24 pm I have reached the end, until El Jarama and I congratulate the developer a million times. Very well done the setting, historically successful, geographically well represented, strategically impeccable. Great, good job.
Only two objections.

The Battle of Jarama was the first massive confrontation of the war, the columns became brigades and the EPR (People's Army of the Republic) was militarized in Mixed Brigades. The Tabores (battalions) of the GFRI (Group of Regular Indigenous Forces) gained notoriety alongside the Banderas de La Legión, both elite infantry compared to any other unit. Especially La Legión, a unit not understood by anyone not Spanish. This unit cannot be treated as normal infantry, it is not only an incorrectness, it is also serious ignorance. I am not insulting, I understand that it is something very Spanish, and no one has obligation to know. The Spanish Legion is a very unique unit, and has little in common with the French Legion, with which it is often confused.
I say all this because when it comes to making a game about the Spanish civil war, you have to know very well about the kind of infantry that the African Legion and Tabores were. A separate infantry, different, very professional units with equivalent command.

You cannot give the same combat values to a regular infantry unit, made up of recruits or volunteers, as to a Legionarios or Regulares (Regulares is today an elite Spanish infantry corps, the most decorated corps in the army). No one would give a US Marine or Japanese SNLF unit the same combat values than a someone else regular infantry unit.
I just wanted to say this, thank you.
Ey, Nordlingen, thank you very much too for your feedback. First of all, let me be clear I take no offense in any of your comments, on the contrary, I think you raised very valid points, and I don’t disagree with at all regarding the core of your reasoning: both Regulars and Legion Flags were high-quality infantry units, much better than anything the Republicans could put in the battlefield during 1936. They were used very effectively as assault troops in the offensive northbound from Andalusia to Madrid during these first months, and there was a huge difference in terms of training, experience, equipment AND command between these formations and the best loyalist forces at that moment. Said that, I also think this gap was going to be almost closed during the mid and late stages of the war, step by step, as the Republican infantry improved in all these aspects: during the Teruel or the Ebro offensives, for example, the Republican were able to field very good infantry units, only lacking in the intermediate-command level: during all the war the Nationalists always had better lieutenants, captains, etc… than the Republicans.

When I began with the mod, I had to make some design decisions regarding how I was to organize the infantry units of both sides. The thing with playing the Spanish Civil War from the Republican point of view in a game like OoB is that, as you said in a previous message
Nordlingen1634 wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:31 am A campaing from the nationalist perspective it would have been much more flexible and easy to do, in my modest opinion. But that`s fine anyway.
In other words, a Nationalist perspective fits better with the traditional OoB-like gameplay: a small but better offensive army facing a larger enemy, partially static, with worse units. But since I wanted to try the Republican POV this time, I had to figure out how to make fun playing with the “horde”. I opted for using the militia as the main republican infantry, which is clearly a worse version of the regular infantry; therefore even when the player has access to purchase the regular infantry, he will had to rely partially in auxiliar militia units: in many points of the campaing, you have more infantry units (most of them militias) than the Nationalists, and will have to swarm them, cutting the supply lines of the advancing enemy columns, etc… I am only partially happy with the result, but at least I think it works well enough. Answering to your concern, if the Nationalists had even better infantry (making the Legion a sort of Marine units, for example), would make much more difficult for me to balance the difficulty/fun with those overpowered units. At the end you have to compromise a bit between historicity and fun, I guess :/

What I did, though, in the late scenarios (when the republican infantry core units are competent at last) was to try using 3 and more stars for at least some Legion and Regular units, aming to “simulate” the excellency of these units with the experience trait . Specifically in the final double scen (Brunete) there is a secondary objective which includes dealing with several 4-starred infantry units.

Finally, let me add that although maybe it is not obvious since i’m developing the mod in english, I am, indeed, spanish, therefore i was more or less aware of the reputation of the Legion. For this same reason you can be as demanding and strict as you wish in your criticisms, which are very welcomed and I am very thankful for :)

Un abrazo, compatriota / A hug, fellow spaniard :)
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bondjamesbond »

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Where is the link to download ?
https://mynickname.com/id73473
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

There is a link for the previous version of the campaign (0.75) in the OP, almost at the end. I will post the new one (0.9) maybe next week, so if you are interested in playing the whole show, you may want to wait for it :D
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bru888 »

LNDavoust wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:21 am There is a link for the previous version of the campaign (0.75) in the OP, almost at the end. I will post the new one (0.9) maybe next week, so if you are interested in playing the whole show, you may want to wait for it :D
I am singing ¡Ay Carmela! in anticipation!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMWBPw ... Commieball
- Bru
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by terminator »

I'm waiting for the release :)

Artwork-political-posters-Spanish-Civil-War-Republican-Poster-05.jpg
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bru888 »

Speaking seriously for a moment, can you imagine how a Republican victory in Spain could have changed the course of world history? How, if Franco and his fascists were knocked back on their arses, perhaps Hitler would not have been so bold?

The Allies had a chance to head der führer off in Spain, and they blew it. Partly from cautious non-interference but very much due to the support that the Republic was receiving from communist Soviet Union.

In anticipation of the release of version 0.90, I am inspired to do some reading about the Spanish Civil War. It is overshadowed, of course, by the carnage that followed it but I view it as a major watershed of history.
- Bru
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by terminator »

bru888 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:08 am I am singing ¡Ay Carmela! in anticipation!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMWBPw ... Commieball
Surprising the first comment of this video on youtube :o
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bondjamesbond »

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At that moment , it was necessary to extinguish this gang of Hirohito, Mussolini , Hitler and Franco ! :wink:
https://warspot.ru/3095-srazhenie-u-ses ... -v-ispanii

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The Trubia tank model 1926 on the barricades in Oviedo, December 1936. The tank's mass is 8,9 tons. crew of 3 people, Daimler engine, 75 hp. Speed 19 km / h, armor 20 mm, armament three 7 mm Hotchkiss machine guns.

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T-26 of the 1st armored Brigade, a fighter of the 15th inter-brigade is standing at the tank - an American Negro, R.Harama, February 1937


So I'm waiting for an update :!:
https://alternathistory.com/dalekij-mer ... i-chast-2/


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https://newsland.com/post/7093604-foto- ... 936-1939gg

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A nationalist soldier throws a grenade into the Republican trench.


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https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/second-s ... 1931-1939/
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/spai ... _tanks.php
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/kingdom- ... 1921-1931/
https://mynickname.com/id73473
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

Thanks for the links, bond. It is remarkable how even as soon as in 1936 it was clear that tanks could have problems in "urban" environments without the support of the infantry. One of the few mechanisms from Panzer Corps 2 which personally miss in OoB is the severe attack debuff of tanks units against infantry defending a city.

The battle described in the link (Seseña, not even a city, a very small village at the moment) was a minor clash, almost and skirmish: it is the main inspiration for the fictional "Battle of Valdemoro", included in TSP campaign; since I changed (and included) several non-historical elements in that one, I preferred to change the name of the battle, but it is basically Seseña :)
terminator wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:58 pm
bru888 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:08 am I am singing ¡Ay Carmela! in anticipation!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMWBPw ... Commieball
Surprising the first comment of this video on youtube :o
Yep, I wasn't aware of the past as an International Brigadist of one ancestor of the man. He is such a box of surprises :)

Talking about Brigadists, I recently discovered this comic about the Lincoln Brigade, specifically about Oliver Law, who has a life that almost seems straight out from a hollywood movie.

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https://www.budsartbooks.com/product/th ... n-brigade/

I take the mention to the Internationals to thank Rafdobrowolski again: without him the texts in the mod would be a gibbering mess, just something far resembling english.
rafdobrowolski wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:48 pm One of the reasons I was excited to see this SCW mod being developed, and why I helped with the translations for the mod was my own personal attachment to the conflict. The grandfather (Leonard Olson) of a former partner of mine was part of the Abraham Lincoln International Brigade who fought at the battle of the Ebro and other conflicts at the end of the SCW. He died back in the late 1990's. As of today, now all veterans of every one of the international brigades has since passed away:

https://www.democracynow.org/2021/5/26/ ... -192834814
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

bru888 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:28 pm Speaking seriously for a moment, can you imagine how a Republican victory in Spain could have changed the course of world history? How, if Franco and his fascists were knocked back on their arses, perhaps Hitler would not have been so bold?

The Allies had a chance to head der führer off in Spain, and they blew it. Partly from cautious non-interference but very much due to the support that the Republic was receiving from communist Soviet Union.

In anticipation of the release of version 0.90, I am inspired to do some reading about the Spanish Civil War. It is overshadowed, of course, by the carnage that followed it but I view it as a major watershed of history.
I have read a lot of what ifs and stories regarding that very same question, Bru, and funny enough I still haven't found one I enthusiastically like. A Republican victory would have left a very different Spain for the XXth century, that's for sure, but at the end I doubt the final outcome of world war ii would have been different. What could have been different, though, would be the world war itself. Additionally, it is not clear what political system would survive in the country after the civil war. Several of many plausible plausible scenarios I can envision:

- With the help of France and UK (post-Munich agreements, when it is clear the appeasement is not working), and with Germany's hands full with Poland, the republicans turn the tables (or at least resist) as late as in 1940. Following the Fall of France, the Whermacht rolls over Spain, which becames a full member of the Axis. Gibraltar falls. Operation Herkules goes forward in the 42? U-boat bases from the iberian peninsula (even Canary Islands?) predates more efficiently the atlantic ships. The UK mediterranean fleet capabilities deteriorates and Rommels goes as far as Middle East. Barbarrosa delayed to 42? Afrika Korps links with germany South Army in the Caucasus in 43?? Normady landing never happens but Spain landings in 44?????

- A total victory for Republicans with the Soviet Supplies in 1938 precedes a sovietization of Spain. After the Fall of France in 1940, Soviet Spain remains free since Molotov-Ribentropp is still working. Barbarosa in 41 triggers a war declaration for Soviet Spain? The two fronts war doesnt work for Germany, and Spain supports uprising in Vichy France which drains resources and efforts to the Reich?? World war 2 ends in 44, and soviet countries in Western Europe reshapes the Cold War era????

- An early republic victory in 1936-1937 leads to a Spanish Third Republic, with a bizarre/frankestein libertarian-(non-soviet)socialist-democratic system as a result. Germany and other countries are so repulsed by it that it denies the existence of Spain for that moment and beyond: in the maps Portugal becomes an island, and Frances gains a huge beach line in the Pyrenees. Everybody is happy.

Speculate is fun :) Usually scholars and people with History-degrees like yourself are not to so prone to do it so, which I can understand :) By the way, what are you reading about the spanish civil war, if i may ask?

There is a planned second campaign for TSP which covers the second half of the civil war, and includes an alternative path where the Republic wins the war (well, sort of), but although at the moment I doubt it will be a reality ever, I prefer avoiding spoilers :)
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bru888 »

LNDavoust wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pmBy the way, what are you reading about the spanish civil war, if i may ask?
My library had two books available on the Spanish Civil War: The Spanish Civil War: Reaction, Revolution & Revenge by Paul Preston and The Battle for Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939 by Antony Beevor. They both looked good, but Beevor's book has a dozen maps including several of key battles (I am a sucker for battle maps) and it seemed to be a more friendly read, so I chose that one.
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bru888 »

bru888 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:25 pm ... it seemed to be a more friendly read ...
For example, it opens thusly:

On an unsurfaced road in Andalucia or Estremadura, one of the first automobiles in Spain has broken down. In the photograph a young man grasps the steering wheel. He is not very good-looking, due to a large nose and enormous ears. His brilliantined hair is parted in two and he has a moustache. The driver of the car is King Alfonso XIII.

On either side, men are pushing hard at the mudguards. Their faces are burned a deep brown by the sun and they are poorly dressed, without collars or ties. They are making a big effort. In the background, three or four figures dressed in suits and hats observe the goings-on. A rider, perhaps a local landowner, has reined in his horse. On the right, a landau drawn by two horses, the reins held by a uniformed coachman, waits ready to rescue the monarch if the car’s engine fails to restart. The caption announces that the king’s greatest wish is to maintain ‘direct contact with his people’.

Few images better represented the extremes of the social and economic contrasts of Spain in the early part of the twentieth century. But perhaps the most striking aspect of the photograph is the way the peasants and the king must have seemed like foreigners to each other in their own country.


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The famous photograph of the young King Alfonso XIII getting to know his people.
- Bru
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by bondjamesbond »

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https://armedman.ru/fotogalereya/fotogr ... chast.html

The Foreign Spanish Legion is not to be confused with the French ) Yes, it is easy to reason from modern times how history could turn and some time interval))) But of course it's better to make a mod based on a real story, whatever it is) It 's enough that the developers of Panzer Corps 2 made their Spanish civil war with a time loop , alas , it turned out to be miserable )

https://warspot.ru/13448-ispanskiy-legion
https://rzhavin77.livejournal.com/65628.html
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1351 ... d=35018759

P.S.>
https://en.topwar.ru/95795-tanki-respub ... ast-1.html
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/1933 ... in_at_War/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/7532 ... pain_1936/
https://www.moddb.com/mods/spanish-civi ... vil-war-20
https://mr-garett.livejournal.com/215930.html
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1753546629
https://www.moddb.com/mods/1936-1939-th ... /downloads


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Tank "Verdeha" is very cool in PC))) Well , the ACS on its base )
On July 17, 1936, the Spanish Civil War began. It has also become our war – a continuation of the fratricidal confrontation between the "reds" and "whites". Russians fought on both sides of the front: Soviet volunteers, advisers and specialists – in the ranks of the Republicans, white emigrant officers - in the army of General Franko
https://russian.rt.com/article/312591-v ... ye-voevali


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https://rabkrin.org/bredley/bredley.htm
http://volk59.narod.ru/spainwar.htm
https://en.topwar.ru/95156-sovetskie-vo ... panii.html

The fate of inter-brigades in Spain according to new documents
https://scepsis.net/library/id_3252.html

What if the Republicans had won in Spain
The Republicans, mostly of the extreme left, were supported not only by the Communists, but also by the Western intelligentsia, but the ultra-right won.
https://diletant.media/articles/45238168/


There is also a mod about the Spanish Civil War :arrow:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86786



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The emblem of the armored train brigade
https://kv-bear.livejournal.com/430027.html
https://shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com/1545695.html
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Poster of the Spanish Civil War — "Nationalist bomber destroys Republican armored train", 1936
http://ava.org.ru/front/spain/armor/bepo.htm
https://naukatehnika.com/bronepoezda-is ... ojnyi.html
https://mynickname.com/id73473
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

bru888 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:25 pm
LNDavoust wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pmBy the way, what are you reading about the spanish civil war, if i may ask?
My library had two books available on the Spanish Civil War: The Spanish Civil War: Reaction, Revolution & Revenge by Paul Preston and The Battle for Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939 by Antony Beevor. They both looked good, but Beevor's book has a dozen maps including several of key battles (I am a sucker for battle maps) and it seemed to be a more friendly read, so I chose that one.
Beevor is usually great with WW2, I didn't know he had written one about our quarrell, good finding. Preston is probably the most famous civil war historian, I have read many of his pieces, but not that whole book (frequently quoted in the web), but i'm sure it does a great job explaining the political dimension of a, let's face it, a very political war.
bru888 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:56 pm On an unsurfaced road in Andalucia or Estremadura, one of the first automobiles in Spain has broken down. In the photograph a young man grasps the steering wheel. He is not very good-looking, due to a large nose and enormous ears. His brilliantined hair is parted in two and he has a moustache. The driver of the car is King Alfonso XIII.

Fun Fact about Alfonso XIII! :idea: He was a great pornographer back in the day, both producer of movies and collector of the genre :D https://twitter.com/henryharkerhart/sta ... 40?lang=en (NSFW images; also spoilers from movies 100 years old, i guess)
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90 SOON)

Post by LNDavoust »

Thanks again for the links, bond, it's gonna take me a while to review all of them :)

Regarding the Verdeja, it was just a prototype in the very late phases of the war, and ever after it, it was never produced in great numbers (it was still been tested in the 50s when the USA offered much better units to Spain). I didn't know they have used it in the new PC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdeja

I had some plans for the Verdejas for the alternative history pathway in the second campaign in the mod, but we'll see :)
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Re: Spanish Civil War Mod & Campaign (v0.90)

Post by LNDavoust »

Link to the 0.9 version in the OP, gents. It's really late here now, so tomorrow, more details 8)
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