Samurai

sadista · Post by **sadista** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:56 am

Has anyone used them in a game yet?
How did you fare?

Book arrived today so hopefully get a game in tomorrow to test mine out.

Trench_Raider · Post by **Trench_Raider** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:30 pm

I painted up a Samurai army in preparation for the release of the new book. I finished it the week before the book got widespread release here in the US. I've played two games with my army so far and I like it. I've found that those large blocks of armoured, bow*, heavy weapon Bushi are pretty nice...and they cool too!
My first game was against an Alexandian Macendonian army and resulted in a 2-12 win for me. The Samurai put out a suprising amount of shooting even being bow* wich helped in deisrupting some enemy units before contact and the protected spearmen of that army were quickly ground down by my armoured heavy weapon guys. Only the pike blocks put up much of a fight, but with their flanking troops gone, they were doomed.
My second game was against a Medieval German army. I lost it 8-12, but it was actually a good fight. Once again the lackluster foot of the German army was run down by my large blocks of Bushi, but I was unable to keep his knights from contacting, my troops. As it turns out, knights are going to be a real killer against the Japanese. But it was actually a hard fought game, so I felt good about it.

Good luck with your Samurai.

TR

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:15 am

What do you call "large" block and what period did you play as there are more than one samurai army lists .

Trench_Raider · Post by **Trench_Raider** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:54 pm

My bad..

I run my Bushi in blocks of eight stands. The list I used is the late one...the one covering the Muramachi era.

TR

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:03 pm

OK and thanks ( you know some people still wait for their book )

Huaxtec15mm · Post by **Huaxtec15mm** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:11 am

Re: Samurai

I'm kinda bumbed how samurai are depicted in this book. Moving large blocks of indescriminate troops around the table does not seem like it would be much fun or lend itself to too many varied tactics. I would have preferred different weapon types (retainers w/ bow, retainers w/ naginata, etc...) be mounted seperately. I have no trouble w/ the mounted being incorporated w/ the foot.

On a side note, if anyone is interested in playing 28mm pre-1500's samurai, there are several sets suggested for pre-orders on the Wargames factory page:

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/ ... rai/page1/
http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/ ... oot/page1/
http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/ ... and/page1/

Currently only samurai are available to pre-order, but multi-part retainers have been submitted as well and should be posted to pre-order once Wargames Factory gets its act together.

Trench_Raider · Post by **Trench_Raider** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:40 am

Well, actually you CAN get seperately deployed retainers. You have to buy 24 required mixed stands. But you can also get yari armed retainers (protected offensive spear either average or poor), seperate deployed cav, and a single seperate bow unit (the only armoured MF bow unit I've seen yet). Finally you have a single seperate Samurai unit classed as superior armoured skilled swordsmen. what use that unit is, I have yet to figure out.

As you have to have a yari armed retainer unit for every seperate cav unit you use my own army right now has 4 mixed Bushi units, 3 cavalry, the armoured bow unit, 3 yari retainers, and a poor camp guard unit that I bought with the left over points.

Yes, the Samurai army is not a world beater, it's very vunerable to knights and other heavy mounted, and it does not conform to the popular mythology. But I'm enjoying mine and have found those Bushi units to be suprisingly effective against the majority of the infantry out there.

TR
Who is once again only talking about the late list.....

OldenTired · Post by **OldenTired** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:47 am

Trench_Raider wrote:a single seperate bow unit (the only armoured MF bow unit I've seen yet).

Early Achmeneid Persians. Two BG of Superior Arm MF Bow.

sadista · Post by **sadista** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:51 am

I tend to agree only the late list is worth looking at.

I have gone with
7 bushi bg's - may go with 6 and take an IC
2 arm sup off sp
2 prot avg off sp
2 mob
1 poor camp guard

Trench_Raider · Post by **Trench_Raider** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:23 am

OldenTired wrote:
Trench_Raider wrote:a single seperate bow unit (the only armoured MF bow unit I've seen yet).
Early Achmeneid Persians. Two BG of Superior Arm MF Bow.

Ah.
I stand corrected then! For some reason I can't put my finger on, I've never been a fan of persian armies, so I missed that.

TR

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:35 am

OldenTired wrote:
Trench_Raider wrote:a single seperate bow unit (the only armoured MF bow unit I've seen yet).
Early Achmeneid Persians. Two BG of Superior Arm MF Bow.

With free Light Spear so even better !

LambertSimnel · Post by **LambertSimnel** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:36 pm

OldenTired wrote:
Trench_Raider wrote:a single seperate bow unit (the only armoured MF bow unit I've seen yet).
Early Achmeneid Persians. Two BG of Superior Arm MF Bow.

The Kofun-Nara Japanese think that 13 BG of Superior Arm MF Bow sounds much better than 2 BG of Superior Arm MF Bow.

Disclaimer: Offer only valid at 935AP or greater. Light Spears not included.

sadista · Post by **sadista** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:36 pm

Used the Samurai against Principate Roman.
Mixed Bushi dont enjoy fighting legionaries or Arm Lgtsp Sw cavalry.

Totally different experience for me, forming a line and marching forward. No manouvre required, the aim to hit with as much as possible at the same time.
Failed badly against the skilled swordsmen. Against the auxiliary it was a 50/50 fight, may the best 4's win.

Learnings.
Rear support required in column to cover for routs.
Cav needed to help on flanks and give the army some manouvre

Trench_Raider · Post by **Trench_Raider** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:46 am

I just played, and lost, against a Sassanid Persian army. Terrain rolls did not favor me and my opponent was able to screen off the majority of my Bushi while attacking the weak points of my army. Don't get me wrong, I made him work for it. But it was a loss none the less. In the last two games, my cavalry BGs have been the week point of the army. I'm begining to think of trading them in for more mixed Bushi.

What do the cavalry bring to the army anyway?
Yeah they are superior and are slightly more mobile. But on the other hand the Bushi are pretty mobile themselves being MF, even with bow* shoot more effectively, and in big units are more resilant. And all this for 10 points a stand vs. 18.

I'm seriously thinking of proxying my cav stands as more mixed Bushi next game and playing an all infantry army much like that posted by sadista.

TR

Trench_Raider · Post by **Trench_Raider** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:48 am

Trench_Raider wrote:I just played, and lost, against a Sassanid Persian army. Terrain rolls did not favor me and my opponent was able to screen off the majority of my Bushi while attacking the weak points of my army. Don't get me wrong, I made him work for it. But it was a loss none the less. In the last two games, my three cavalry BGs have been the weak point of the army. I'm begining to think of trading them in for more mixed Bushi.

What do the cavalry bring to the army anyway?
Yeah they are superior and are slightly more mobile. But on the other hand the Bushi are pretty mobile themselves being MF, even with bow* shoot more effectively, and in big units are more resilant. And all this for 10 points a stand vs. 18.

I'm seriously thinking of proxying my cav stands as more mixed Bushi next game and playing an all infantry army much like that posted by sadista.

TR