Max,
Just curious about your "gloomy" assessment that Casablanca may not fall. As far as I can see he has two weak air units that can immediately attack your forces there but any ground units are 3-turns away. Any by the time you will have Casablanca blocked so they won't be able to reinforce. What am I missing?
AAR: Supermax Vs Moriss (No moriss please)
Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
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It was a concern i expressed before that he might put a little more effort in securing Casablanca, cause it will be worth it and can easily backfire if goal not achieved. This was before the landings around Casablanca. Now the battle starts to swing axis way put might change again if Morris got more reinfrocements arriving(wich is unlikely though). I am sure it will turn out good....rkr1958 wrote:Max,
Just curious about your "gloomy" assessment that Casablanca may not fall. As far as I can see he has two weak air units that can immediately attack your forces there but any ground units are 3-turns away. Any by the time you will have Casablanca blocked so they won't be able to reinforce. What am I missing?
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
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Looks like Morris will stick to his plan. Around Moscow it´s pretty much only units that Russia starts with. It might be so if you push on Moscow you might force his hand and he will attack early with his tanks even during a fair weather turn somwhere in the midsector or southern front. Hopefully he will stay inactive until winter.
What happens if you capture Moscow, will you stay and protect it at all costs? Might be worth it...
What happens if you capture Moscow, will you stay and protect it at all costs? Might be worth it...
What happens from now on will depends on Moriss. Meaning that its pretty obvious now that he is looking to resist and counter-attack in the south, i can only see a thin line of infantry around Msocow, so the tanks and mechs are somewhere in the center or south. LAst turn (i didnt capture sorry) i took Dnepropretrovsk and advanced my troops and i could see mechs. So this is where he want to make his stad on his winter offensive. I hope he attacks early...Crazygunner1 wrote:Looks like Morris will stick to his plan. Around Moscow it´s pretty much only units that Russia starts with. It might be so if you push on Moscow you might force his hand and he will attack early with his tanks even during a fair weather turn somwhere in the midsector or southern front. Hopefully he will stay inactive until winter.
What happens if you capture Moscow, will you stay and protect it at all costs? Might be worth it...
Also in that turn i was starting to attck Moscow. It now has only 3 entrenchement and i am poised to cross the river defenses next turn.
As for the Casablanca front, assests are being moved into place to swamp over the Brits. My landing is ultimatly going to fail, but its primary objective wasnt necessarily the taking of Casablanca, i knew i wasnt strong enough. But this will give us enough of a diversion to get the Oran offensive group into gear. a TAC has landed in Tunisia, a tank and 2 mechs are coming as well. I need to accelerate theses actions, i dont want the americans to join before ive taken Casablanca.
Also, on the naval side of things, Moriss has his fleet stuck in the MED for now. only 2 BB left in Atlantic and i seriously damaged one to 4 steps. So no more reinforcements going to Casablanca, i have 2 BB almost full strenght, 1 DD 9 steps and 1 sub 9 steps + 1 sub 3 steps in the area.
Totally agree with you. I cant let that happen.Crazygunner1 wrote:It was a concern i expressed before that he might put a little more effort in securing Casablanca, cause it will be worth it and can easily backfire if goal not achieved. This was before the landings around Casablanca. Now the battle starts to swing axis way put might change again if Morris got more reinfrocements arriving(wich is unlikely though). I am sure it will turn out good....rkr1958 wrote:Max,
Just curious about your "gloomy" assessment that Casablanca may not fall. As far as I can see he has two weak air units that can immediately attack your forces there but any ground units are 3-turns away. Any by the time you will have Casablanca blocked so they won't be able to reinforce. What am I missing?
but end result is that i had to give some hope to moriss isf i wanted him to commit his british navy. My goal is to oblitarate it. If i can have Spain and then Gibraltar on my side, it will be VERY dificult for the americans to think about a landing in Europe for a long time.
Next turn i'll show a screen capture of what i am building on the naval side of things...
Turn 38: Moscow Falls, Moriss counter-attacks
Well, here we are. Moriss counter attacked in the south. amaged several units without killing anything super-important.
6 guards units on the map that i can see. How wonderfully ridiculous since i can only have 1 SS unit LOL, thats a joke. Anyway...
I cannot let Moriss have his way, so i counter-attack even more, destroying Zhukov and his tank and a mech. I also bring overwhelming force to the area. He can keep attacking, but i may end up destroying the whole of Russian army, or get destroyed in the process. We will just have to see.
Pretty good counter-attack by the way. No comes the hard part... 1 more turn for sure of fair weather after that... Well we'll just have to cross our fingers and destroy enough of his offensive punch before the winter sets in.
6 guards units on the map that i can see. How wonderfully ridiculous since i can only have 1 SS unit LOL, thats a joke. Anyway...
I cannot let Moriss have his way, so i counter-attack even more, destroying Zhukov and his tank and a mech. I also bring overwhelming force to the area. He can keep attacking, but i may end up destroying the whole of Russian army, or get destroyed in the process. We will just have to see.
Pretty good counter-attack by the way. No comes the hard part... 1 more turn for sure of fair weather after that... Well we'll just have to cross our fingers and destroy enough of his offensive punch before the winter sets in.
Turn 39: Full german retreat for winter quarters.
Russians army unbelievably strong...
Hitler panicking... LOL
Wow did you see that Russian army? Its stronger than the german army how very lame!
Well, now we know what we will be producing for a while! LOL
Long very long winter coming up. Hitler has ordered that we will resist to the last man!
Hitler panicking... LOL
Wow did you see that Russian army? Its stronger than the german army how very lame!
Well, now we know what we will be producing for a while! LOL
Long very long winter coming up. Hitler has ordered that we will resist to the last man!
I don't think that the Red Army is so strong in the south. I only spot three ARM and five MECH. The problem is rather, that the Red Army is stronger then the Axis in this sector as forces are scattered in the east. He could crush Army Group South if your are not very careful.
As Morris did not defend Moscow with a strong force such a "southern" force can be easily produced by the Soviets in 1941. That the ARM are Guard units is normal, since in your game it is allowed to purchase them. I do not think that this force is "unbelievable strong". In fact it is a good sign that Morris needs to start his offensive with a rather medium force and during fair weather. It seems he needs this offensive to relieve the other fronts from your pressure.
If I were in your position I would retreat as fast as you can to the Romanian/Soviet border and only leave units in the cities as a rearguard. Form a defense line outside of the severe winter weather zone. Otherwise AGS will be crushed as soon as severe winter hits. There is no chance that you will hold the line with so many minor Axis units and expensive units like MECH and ARM in the first line.
You should also do everything to capture Casablanca in the next few turns. As soon as the US is activated you will get nothing from capturing Casablanca as Spain cannot be activated after the US enters the war. I think it was an error not to secure Casablanca before you do Barbarossa. The Spanish will give you one Mech, several INF, several GAR, two DD, a TAC and a FTR + a lot of PP. This is really a nice boost of the Axis forces if Spain activates. It will be really a waste of resources if you do not manage to activate Spain. In fact this would be a major allied success.
As Morris did not defend Moscow with a strong force such a "southern" force can be easily produced by the Soviets in 1941. That the ARM are Guard units is normal, since in your game it is allowed to purchase them. I do not think that this force is "unbelievable strong". In fact it is a good sign that Morris needs to start his offensive with a rather medium force and during fair weather. It seems he needs this offensive to relieve the other fronts from your pressure.
If I were in your position I would retreat as fast as you can to the Romanian/Soviet border and only leave units in the cities as a rearguard. Form a defense line outside of the severe winter weather zone. Otherwise AGS will be crushed as soon as severe winter hits. There is no chance that you will hold the line with so many minor Axis units and expensive units like MECH and ARM in the first line.
You should also do everything to capture Casablanca in the next few turns. As soon as the US is activated you will get nothing from capturing Casablanca as Spain cannot be activated after the US enters the war. I think it was an error not to secure Casablanca before you do Barbarossa. The Spanish will give you one Mech, several INF, several GAR, two DD, a TAC and a FTR + a lot of PP. This is really a nice boost of the Axis forces if Spain activates. It will be really a waste of resources if you do not manage to activate Spain. In fact this would be a major allied success.
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trulster
- Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
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Also, seems a lot of German tanks are not upgraded from starting techs? Cannot be a nice way to face the Red Army. Also it seems the Russians enjoy local air superiority on the hurting southern sector. Could oil levels be worrying after a lof of naval and air usage?
BTW, Russian convoys, are they getting sunk? Should be a nice consequence of owning Britain.
On the bright side, with the massive Brit naval losses, the US will have to build a lot of ships before thinking about shipping any presence to Europe/Africa. Even if not managing to capture Casablanca before US entry, taking the city is still worthwhile as it will mean the destruction of almost the entire UK army, that must take some time to come back from. Though, the prolonged fighting in North Africa cannot have been good for the Italian manpower.
BTW, Russian convoys, are they getting sunk? Should be a nice consequence of owning Britain.
On the bright side, with the massive Brit naval losses, the US will have to build a lot of ships before thinking about shipping any presence to Europe/Africa. Even if not managing to capture Casablanca before US entry, taking the city is still worthwhile as it will mean the destruction of almost the entire UK army, that must take some time to come back from. Though, the prolonged fighting in North Africa cannot have been good for the Italian manpower.
its a very bad idea to have the option for purchasing Guards on - well bad for the Axis
Moriss doesn't play for a long game, he doesn't invest in Labs - he does the minimum to support a victory in 43
he just 'fights' the Axis PP's, thats why as the Axis he does nothing except focus on a short victory over Russia
Moriss doesn't play for a long game, he doesn't invest in Labs - he does the minimum to support a victory in 43
he just 'fights' the Axis PP's, thats why as the Axis he does nothing except focus on a short victory over Russia
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Crazygunner1
- Major - 8.8 cm FlaK 36
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I think you should abandon Moscow as well, maybe leave german INF in the city to safeguard you retreat. Cause you flanks are way exposed if he rails in a couple of corps on either side. While retreating i would go for the destruction of the small russian pocket. Also since scorched earth is in effect, he won´t be getting that much PPs from Moscow from the whole winter so your focus there should be to save your army.
In the south, as you said before, retreat is the order of the day. Maybe even back to Kiev. Avoid his forces as much as you can to rebuild for 42. By then you will have a rested Luftwaffe and all the reinforcements from NA and some xtra from Spain.
If you instead plan to hold the line in the south, you will need 2 line defense and some reserve to fill in. that might work, but it is hard to say since i don´t know how hard pressed your PP is.
Best of luck to you
In the south, as you said before, retreat is the order of the day. Maybe even back to Kiev. Avoid his forces as much as you can to rebuild for 42. By then you will have a rested Luftwaffe and all the reinforcements from NA and some xtra from Spain.
If you instead plan to hold the line in the south, you will need 2 line defense and some reserve to fill in. that might work, but it is hard to say since i don´t know how hard pressed your PP is.
Best of luck to you
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Crazygunner1
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Siberian reserve have not yet been released. Max and Morris have a setting that enables Morris to buy Guard units for money instead of as usual gaining experience.leridano wrote:How it is possible that Morris has his guards units already available right in august-september 1941 if these units usually spawn in october and afterwards they have to be railed from Siberia?
So the Siberian reserves are pretty heavy and will tip the favor during winter for Morris on the ground pretty much. That is why max needs to stay away from battle this winter and take em out during next summer offensive using the luftwaffe.
In GS 2.0 i think the axis needs to be much more careful when winter arrives than in previous versions of GS. We have seen many games end in 41 already as soon as Russia launches it´s winter offensive.
I don't think US will have much to do here. Axis strategy is really extremely efficient: burning German's PPs causes mainly that they don't have enough infantry to cover Russian front. After 1941 euphoria winter comes and it turns out that you have virtually no units to defend. This happened in Plaid AARs and this is happening here.trulster wrote:Also, seems a lot of German tanks are not upgraded from starting techs? Cannot be a nice way to face the Red Army. Also it seems the Russians enjoy local air superiority on the hurting southern sector. Could oil levels be worrying after a lof of naval and air usage?
BTW, Russian convoys, are they getting sunk? Should be a nice consequence of owning Britain.
On the bright side, with the massive Brit naval losses, the US will have to build a lot of ships before thinking about shipping any presence to Europe/Africa. Even if not managing to capture Casablanca before US entry, taking the city is still worthwhile as it will mean the destruction of almost the entire UK army, that must take some time to come back from. Though, the prolonged fighting in North Africa cannot have been good for the Italian manpower.
The trick is that you don't see how poor Germans are until they loose initiative in winter 1941.
When Siberian reserves (5x overstrength comparing to history) comes it will become disaster for Germans. Is retreat to Polish/Soviet border in early 1942 a German victory?
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Peter Stauffenberg
- General - Carrier
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Morris has actually encountered a logical bug here when purchasing 6 guards units. We increased the numbers from 2 to 6 because of the 4 shock armies arriving in 1941, but forgot to think about the purchase optional rule. We usually don't play with this on.
Since he will get the shock armies for free it means he will end up with 10 guards units instead of the max 6. That's not intended so either these 4 should appear as regular armies instead of guards or 4 of the 6 guards units should be reverted back to regular status.
So the situation shouldn't look as bas as it does.
One thing to remember is that Supermax' Germans should be a bit weaker than regular Germans in 1941 because he fought and bled in Sealion and the battle for destruction of the Royal Navy. It's it normal that he's facing a slightly stiffer Russian resistance. Still, he's doing better with the Germans than most and that's quite an achievement. He's one of the few I've seen who has managed to take both London and Moscow by the end of 1941.
So we will try to figure out a way to fix the logical bug in this game. We will fix general.txt so Russia can only have 2 guards units in 1941 prior to the arrival of the shock armies late 1941.
Since he will get the shock armies for free it means he will end up with 10 guards units instead of the max 6. That's not intended so either these 4 should appear as regular armies instead of guards or 4 of the 6 guards units should be reverted back to regular status.
So the situation shouldn't look as bas as it does.
One thing to remember is that Supermax' Germans should be a bit weaker than regular Germans in 1941 because he fought and bled in Sealion and the battle for destruction of the Royal Navy. It's it normal that he's facing a slightly stiffer Russian resistance. Still, he's doing better with the Germans than most and that's quite an achievement. He's one of the few I've seen who has managed to take both London and Moscow by the end of 1941.
So we will try to figure out a way to fix the logical bug in this game. We will fix general.txt so Russia can only have 2 guards units in 1941 prior to the arrival of the shock armies late 1941.
I'll be watching how long he keeps Moscow.Stauffenberg wrote:One thing to remember is that Supermax' Germans should be a bit weaker than regular Germans in 1941 because he fought and bled in Sealion and the battle for destruction of the Royal Navy. It's it normal that he's facing a slightly stiffer Russian resistance. Still, he's doing better with the Germans than most and that's quite an achievement. He's one of the few I've seen who has managed to take both London and Moscow by the end of 1941.
So it's look like conquering UK made him weaker on the East to the point that he will have to withdraw deeply. I'm very curious how this winter ends.
Guys following the guard bug and also the fact that we are playing under version .20, we have decided to stop this game and go to .25 with all the new changes. There is no point for us to continue playing with rules that no one is going to use anymore.
I think that while the Russians had the advantage for now, on the long run i was still in very good shape. I had 2 CV in the production queue, 2 BB, and 3 subs. With the german having afloat 2 BB, DD and 2 Subs and also the inevitable occupation of Casablanca, that would have made for the joining of Italians and then another 4 subs, 2 BB and a DD. I dont think the americans would have liked that without the brits to help them out.
In Russia, while i was in a bit of difficulty, there was nothing there un-manageable. My manpower was till well over 75%, my pp/turn was 160 and i could build troops for the 42 offensive. Oil was still hovering close to 200.
The only thing that was unmanageable was the 10 guards units... There was simply nothing the germans had on the map to stop them... Even my SS troops with upgraded tankcould only to even odds against them. So if we had wanted to continue the game it would have been with a replay of the turn prior to the russian offensive with 6 guards units. That, was not, in my opinion, a superbly viable option.
I will be gone for a weel in Vegas, so we shall see when the next game start. I hope to be ablr to do an AAR again next time we will see.
I think that while the Russians had the advantage for now, on the long run i was still in very good shape. I had 2 CV in the production queue, 2 BB, and 3 subs. With the german having afloat 2 BB, DD and 2 Subs and also the inevitable occupation of Casablanca, that would have made for the joining of Italians and then another 4 subs, 2 BB and a DD. I dont think the americans would have liked that without the brits to help them out.
In Russia, while i was in a bit of difficulty, there was nothing there un-manageable. My manpower was till well over 75%, my pp/turn was 160 and i could build troops for the 42 offensive. Oil was still hovering close to 200.
The only thing that was unmanageable was the 10 guards units... There was simply nothing the germans had on the map to stop them... Even my SS troops with upgraded tankcould only to even odds against them. So if we had wanted to continue the game it would have been with a replay of the turn prior to the russian offensive with 6 guards units. That, was not, in my opinion, a superbly viable option.
I will be gone for a weel in Vegas, so we shall see when the next game start. I hope to be ablr to do an AAR again next time we will see.