Panzer Corps 2 World Championship - Official thread (1st round starting on September 15)

[jamjam]

I'm paired up with someone who has never played in any of the 1st 3 rounds. Can there be a rule to kick non playing players and can I get another opponent?

[DukeBannon]

How is this possible? I just checked and I believe your opponent is MantaClaws and s/he has faced complete no-shows for the prior three rounds! It will be interesting to see how this person fairs against a real opponent. Hopefully it is a challenging match for the both of you. Good luck!

[ElLobo]

I'm paired up with someone who has never played in any of the 1st 3 rounds. Can there be a rule to kick non playing players and can I get another opponent?

I fear a lot player got disappointed by no shows,...and after 3 rounds, and all that negative writing and thinking, a lot player are pissed and aren´t willed to continue playing, because of having less chance to be the best, but there will be always someone who is better!!!
so,....

i´d love to play that map, but i fear my opponent lost it´s pleasure playing as well as many others!!!

is sad, but ,...
well kleko had luck,...propably after two no-shows he would have stopped playing as well.....and neither that points,.. he had luck thats all...

so ...

[DukeBannon]

First, I want to say I appreciate everything the developers and Slitherine are doing to support and advance the hobby and for organizing this tournament. It's unfortunate that a significant number of people joined the tournament who appear to not be committed to fulfilling their obligation to participate. I'm not sure what easy and not labor-intensive actions Slitherine can take short of dropping people when they are no-shows. My Round 3 opponent never showed and so far my Round 4 opponent is MIA. Hopefully s/he shows up in time for us to complete the battles in a non-chaotic way.

[PaganCyC]

Every round that a player can't play because of an opponent no-show, it makes them more likely to drop out next round and become a no-show for someone else.

There is a solution, that should be simple to implement. I say 'should', because I have no knowledge of how the tournament software works. But it very obviously should be able to:

Wait one week after the start of the round, then match up the people who have actually done the first deployment. And match up their original opponents against one another in case they eventually show up to play.

[ElLobo]

Every round that a player can't play because of an opponent no-show, it makes them more likely to drop out next round and become a no-show for someone else.

There is a solution, that should be simple to implement. I say 'should', because I have no knowledge of how the tournament software works. But it very obviously should be able to:

Wait one week after the start of the round, then match up the people who have actually done the first deployment. And match up their original opponents against one another in case they eventually show up to play.

Sounds nice, but i fear it´s too complicated,....i´d prefer a more simple solution!!! but i´m sorry to say, i don´t know yet the simpler one!!!

It´s sad, that this tournament is getting such a bad reputation because of some players,....no-shows, and "i stop playing because i can´t be number one"....and i´m complaining until i´m allowed to be number one....

the rules and the point system neither i like,...but are the given rules, and when i sign up, i sign up to play under these rules, if i do not like it?? i should think about before!!!

it´s sad that some people still forget, it´s only a game,.....of course our favorite, ....but only a game,...

So please, let us play in a nice way, having fun,,,,,and enjoy it!!!

[SteelTiger007]

APPLY THE KISS SOLUTION...Keep it Simply Smart
wins matter = W vs L
no shows = automatic loss even if both are no shows
next seed = active players paired regardless of won loss record
after 10 rounds seed according to record top vs top and playoff if tied after 12 rounds....this eliminates confusing scoring(this is not golf)

[Lifever]

it´s sad that some people still forget, it´s only a game,.....of course our favorite, ....but only a game,...

It is not "only a game"

A shooter is "only a game"
Pushing buttons on a gamepad faster than somebody else is only a game
Grinding to no end to gain artificial benefit - only a game
Kicking a football through a frame to make your countrymen scream in delight - yeah, that's only a game
Investing and making money in stock exchange is only a game
Grinding your way up a corporate structure - a roleplaying game

Strategy esports is not "just a game"
The skillset to play it great correlate to a lot of lectures in life, combat and numbers - all in one blender

There is no doubt that any great general of the past would be a major alpha in any society regardless of the task
Well - stupidity like we see it in world politics today is maybe not suited for those extraordinary individuals.
They would feel beyond that - the same way I feel beyond Panzer Corps being "just a game".

I hope you can take that as intended - in a positive way to disagree

It is only a game and only fun until you develop a certain skill.
After that it is boring and disappointing to play against others who make critical mistakes and "ruin" the interesting situation.
You only see me cursing playing a strategy game when my opponent makes a critical mistake that is his undoing.
I wanted to see if I can make it even if he played it correct. That chance is out the window. I don't learn and gain nothing.
The only happiness that is gained on this level is overcoming a WORTHY obstacle.

This is true for each and every skill in life. It is only "just fun" as long as you don't do it good or competitive.

Now to each and everybody who says "Well, it does not have to be competitive"...
100% agreed: Don't do a championship tournament, don't take score - that criteria is out the window and a solid part of competitive players won't even show up.
Name it WTC and have a nitpicking scoring system that counts victory hexes per turn, destroyed units, details that don't even matter in the big picture - to say it is not competitive for the ones who actually score high is beyond laughable - same as the scoring system itself

We have two mindsets in this tournament - fun/new players and high scoring veterans.
There is no need to change that - I think it is great and very important.
Don't divide what can coexist. But this will only work if scoring is consistent and there is no frustration.
If scoring works correct and rules are upheld with passion - there won't be

[warrior230]

Ok then.....it's round 4. Captured St Vith as the Germans on turn 1 (as no doubt many others have) Turn 2, no 15 points for controling the hex! Am I missing something?

[Adel77]

it´s sad that some people still forget, it´s only a game,.....of course our favorite, ....but only a game,...

It is not "only a game"

A shooter is "only a game"
Pushing buttons on a gamepad faster than somebody else is only a game
Grinding to no end to gain artificial benefit - only a game
Kicking a football through a frame to make your countrymen scream in delight - yeah, that's only a game
Investing and making money in stock exchange is only a game
Grinding your way up a corporate structure - a roleplaying game

Strategy esports is not "just a game"
The skillset to play it great correlate to a lot of lectures in life, combat and numbers - all in one blender

There is no doubt that any great general of the past would be a major alpha in any society regardless of the task
Well - stupidity like we see it in world politics today is maybe not suited for those extraordinary individuals.
They would feel beyond that - the same way I feel beyond Panzer Corps being "just a game".

I hope you can take that as intended - in a positive way to disagree

It is only a game and only fun until you develop a certain skill.
After that it is boring and disappointing to play against others who make critical mistakes and "ruin" the interesting situation.
You only see me cursing playing a strategy game when my opponent makes a critical mistake that is his undoing.
I wanted to see if I can make it even if he played it correct. That chance is out the window. I don't learn and gain nothing.
The only happiness that is gained on this level is overcoming a WORTHY obstacle.

This is true for each and every skill in life. It is only "just fun" as long as you don't do it good or competitive.

Now to each and everybody who says "Well, it does not have to be competitive"...
100% agreed: Don't do a championship tournament, don't take score - that criteria is out the window and a solid part of competitive players won't even show up.
Name it WTC and have a nitpicking scoring system that counts victory hexes per turn, destroyed units, details that don't even matter in the big picture - to say it is not competitive for the ones who actually score high is beyond laughable - same as the scoring system itself

We have two mindsets in this tournament - fun/new players and high scoring veterans.
There is no need to change that - I think it is great and very important.
Don't divide what can coexist. But this will only work if scoring is consistent and there is no frustration.
If scoring works correct and rules are upheld with passion - there won't be

Dear Mr Lifever,

Reading your posts is a delight and privilege
You sure are not only a very smart and considerate person, but a true alpha male in this hex strategy bracket.
Everything you say is inspiring and true
It is no coincidence that I had a most pleasent game against another proper player!

Please stay with us. share your wisdom as this is what kept me going through the last rounds
I got cheated each and every round by the scoring
The hope to meet somebody of your stature on the hex field is the only hope I still have for this tournament

Thanks for your effort and passion

[Adel77]

What is wrong with this picture?

Yep - I am in 1st place, but also I miss 4000 points total and at least 1000 points this round
Proof? You're welcome!

The game is 30 rounds with 6 victory hexes each worth 15 points per turn.
2700 points total
win bonus 500 both sides = 1000

3700 total

+ annihilated enemy army twice = easily 200 slots per game
= 400 slots times 2 for scoring = 800

4500 points total in this game for both players
That is the pool of points total !!

Now look at my score and the score of my opponent (altermann52) combined!
3004 + 627 = 3631

It was even more units killed btw ... so this game is mathematically missing 1000 points easy

Who is missing those points? me again for once again dominating the game early and taking victory hexes that apparantly did not get the points

Honest question: What is this here?
Is this some handout to kleko? Is this a joke!!?

I had a lot of fun in the game, I had a good chat with the other chap. All was great. We wished each other well, he played it to the end and never gave up.
Then I look at the scoring superhappy to finally catch up and my jaw dropped!

This is the fourth time in a row by now that I am missing 1000 points
I got proof of that too
Are we even supposed to have a fair chance??

[Folklore]

I'm pretty sure the scoring system is the same for everyone, so everyone is missing points.

[Adel77]

I'm pretty sure the scoring system is the same for everyone, so everyone is missing points.

The scoring sys is the same for everyone
It was stated crystal clear that winning early will not give a penalty since round
This is not the case as every 10y old could understand by doing the math

Duh! why oh why?
Thats the point you dont understand because you dont win fast
I won early - as both sides. Axis got the points, Allies dont
Got screenshots to prove that as well

And once again early winners get less points than the one to sit it out and play mediocre through all the turns
And once again some random guy talks down like he knows but understands nothing
I dont even know what guys like you do in a setting like this.
You dont want to understand? move on

In other words - so even infants can understand:
The scoring that is the same for everyone rewards more points to a win that takes double time
Slitherine stated twice that this is no longer the case!!

Now do the math
do the math
Then you will see my win as allies before turn 10 is exactly the points that are missing + the victory bonus of 500 for allies to get to the 1000 points

Now please enlighten me with another smart comment that it is my own fault to believe what Slitherine told everybody in this tournament

[Folklore]

First of all, take your meds.
Second, I'm not completely sure, but I was under impression that the early victory was fixed. I won early in the previous match and got a decent amount of points.

I won early - as both sides. Axis got the points, Allies dont

You can't win early as the defenders. Their victory trigger only works after the last turn.
I and Rollbahn played through all the turns. Mine, your, and Paulwalvoord's games have similar results.

[Adel77]

First of all, take your meds.

Look buddy
I dont want to be rude
Not everybody needs meds to function
It is just you
Please prepare yourself as your doctor sees fit to digest what follows

You can't win early as the defenders. Their victory trigger only works after the last turn.

Need to repeat again for people who dont understand what was crystal clear first time

I WON AS ALLIES BEFORE TURN 10

Do you get this to your head - yes or no?

took the support airfields, planes crashed down which were last axis unit and the game ended then and there.
A screen popped up that said VICTORY and the allies sign was up

I got points for that turn = 90 + petty cash for the planes
No points for one turn beyond that, also no victory bonus

Is this enough for you to understand?
Do you get it now?

Yes - In Moscow did the same and NOTHING happened, so my opponent lost his will to end turns where he saw a dark screen and I got not reward for the turns
The game just got stuck in the middle
I know - you give a shit about that then and give a shit about this now - but this is how it is and it cost me substantial points

There is no way to get fair points as allies
Once it doesnt end and other guy bails
Now it does end and no points

Now every other player here who is not a total asshole understands why this is bothersome and incredibly stupid
You talk down to somebody who was cheated by a faulty system for the fourth time in a row?
And you dont understand how that upsets people?
Then you talk about your fucking medication?

What does my score have to do with your score? You did not win early as allies now did you

[Edmon]

There is some truly unacceptable behaviour going on in this thread.

The hurling of insults, toxic behaviour, swearing, etc, needs to stop and it needs to stop now.

I understand the frustration of not getting the points you feel you should have had, I do. I, too, had a leaver in the 1st round and almost certainly won't be #1 based on that alone. But at the end of the day, this tournament is of the type that ensures everyone gets to play the most games possible and to quickly find games against those of a similar skill level. That means, it's going to have issues compared to an elimination style tournament that has known players and is screened with a qualifier, as you'd find in a very established esport. This tournament was never going to be that, because it allowed just anyone to sign up and play, which is a decision we made to made the competition open to everyone to have a go.

I want to make something abundantly clear, I can't do warnings on this forum only bans. If I continue to see posts like "you dumb fucking morons", needing "meds to function" and stuff about how alpha competitive gamers are and how everyone else is some how a lesser human, I will unfortunately be left with little choice but to permanently vacate people from this forum.

This is, easily the thing I really like the least about my job, please don't force my hand.

Thanks,
Edmon


Edit: We will be removing the AFK's after the current round (4), I believe it needs doing manually between rounds.

[Lifever]

You can't win early as the defenders. Their victory trigger only works after the last turn.

You are simply wrong.
Once the attacker loses all units for "hold ..." objective and has no more supply hexes the game ends.

Mine, your, and Paulwalvoord's games have similar results.

Folklore vs Rollbahn: 3015+1109 = 4124
paulvalwoord vs HerrOberst: 3096+1040 = 4136
Adel77 vs altermann52: 3004+627 = 3631

Interesting that those numbers look like similar results to you.

[Trepko]

From what I experienced and saw, winning as defender does not trigger the +500 points (early win or not). Otherwise, in Moscow, every good defender would have > 2000 points (there was 5 VH * 20points * 15turns = 1500 points + 500 winning points = 2000 points). And no one won more than 1800 points. Maybe this rule should be clarified by Slitherine.

In Ardennes, a good defender should have 6VH * 15points * 15turns= 1350 points minimum (plus slot destruction of course). If you (Adel77) early won (and hold all VH every turn), and however you only have 1272 points, it means that early win as defender is bugged.

[Folklore]

You are simply wrong.
Once the attacker loses all units for "hold ..." objective and has no more supply hexes the game ends.

Has that actually happened to you? I just tested a random defense map and the game indeed doesn't end if the attacker has nothing. And the same happened to me in the previous tournament: the defender couldn't win until the end of the game. I even have a vid for that (timestamped):

Folklore vs Rollbahn: 3015+1109 = 4124
paulvalwoord vs HerrOberst: 3096+1040 = 4136
Adel77 vs altermann52: 3004+627 = 3631

Interesting that those numbers look like similar results to you.

500 points is not a big difference. If it's a big difference to you, then 4121 vs 4136 should look similar.

A screen popped up that said VICTORY and the allies sign was up

And it was not on the 15th turn? Okay then. But you seem to be unhinged.

[ElLobo]

it´s sad that some people still forget, it´s only a game,.....of course our favorite, ....but only a game,...

It is not "only a game"

A shooter is "only a game"
Pushing buttons on a gamepad faster than somebody else is only a game
Grinding to no end to gain artificial benefit - only a game
Kicking a football through a frame to make your countrymen scream in delight - yeah, that's only a game
Investing and making money in stock exchange is only a game
Grinding your way up a corporate structure - a roleplaying game

Strategy esports is not "just a game"
The skillset to play it great correlate to a lot of lectures in life, combat and numbers - all in one blender

There is no doubt that any great general of the past would be a major alpha in any society regardless of the task
Well - stupidity like we see it in world politics today is maybe not suited for those extraordinary individuals.
They would feel beyond that - the same way I feel beyond Panzer Corps being "just a game".

I hope you can take that as intended - in a positive way to disagree

It is only a game and only fun until you develop a certain skill.
After that it is boring and disappointing to play against others who make critical mistakes and "ruin" the interesting situation.
You only see me cursing playing a strategy game when my opponent makes a critical mistake that is his undoing.
I wanted to see if I can make it even if he played it correct. That chance is out the window. I don't learn and gain nothing.
The only happiness that is gained on this level is overcoming a WORTHY obstacle.

This is true for each and every skill in life. It is only "just fun" as long as you don't do it good or competitive.

Now to each and everybody who says "Well, it does not have to be competitive"...
100% agreed: Don't do a championship tournament, don't take score - that criteria is out the window and a solid part of competitive players won't even show up.
Name it WTC and have a nitpicking scoring system that counts victory hexes per turn, destroyed units, details that don't even matter in the big picture - to say it is not competitive for the ones who actually score high is beyond laughable - same as the scoring system itself

We have two mindsets in this tournament - fun/new players and high scoring veterans.
There is no need to change that - I think it is great and very important.
Don't divide what can coexist. But this will only work if scoring is consistent and there is no frustration.
If scoring works correct and rules are upheld with passion - there won't be

Ufff, wooow....

well, i´m sorry to tell you, that you got me wrong, absolutly wrong!!!

first is, i love this game!!!
the second is, i´m pissed by no-shows, and by all that complaining!!!
the rules are given, fair enough that they are the same for everyone!!!

And neither i agree with the pointing system, but there was a try to change it, it wasn´t accepted!!

fun/new player and "high scoring veterans" ,....nicely said,...is this a lovely way to piss off more players, so that it´s only you and three more taking part in that tournament, because the rest isn´t worth it?
i would prefer to accept all of them in the same way, some are younger, some are older, some are more skilled as you say,....but all have the right to be accepted with respect and politness!!!

it´s a chess, more deep and complex and challanging, but still a "game", the dictonary is telling me that, probably you should re-write it, i´m not native english so i can be wrong with,....sorry for, but in the moment the definition of game is clearly printed in any dictonary!!!!

I see that you are very pissed by my words, and that you do not like them, I´m sorry for, but i have my oppinion, and i do not agree with you, so you will need to live with!!!!

But i can understand and see that it is a big passion for you!!! And i guess in that case you are not alone!!! Even in that point you will find younger players, that feel the same about the game, and they will need you as opponent/teacher,....probably you are already for some a example, someone they look up to!!! Probably you should keep that in mind, and use some words more carefully!!!

With Kind regards,

Yours "El-Lobo"