Order of Battle: Panzerkrieg is coming!

[best75]

I am wondering how they will balance this for players that did not play blitzkrieg and those that did. Having units with experience, commanders, and the specs would make a huge difference in the strength of their forces.

[Andy2012]

I am wondering how they will balance this for players that did not play blitzkrieg and those that did. Having units with experience, commanders, and the specs would make a huge difference in the strength of their forces.

This might prove challenging indeed, but what I have seen so far, solutions are sketched out and will be tested and refined. Does look good.

[WarHomer]

Hopefully this will feature more scenarios/missions than the previous DLC´s, even at an added price.

[mhladnik]

I expect another 12-13. Quality over quantity.

[WarHomer]

Why would quality suffer because of more missions?

PC didn´t have that problem and the Grand Campaigns are what keeps most ppl playing IMO.

[Andy2012]

Hopefully this will feature more scenarios/missions than the previous DLC´s, even at an added price.

There is a list of scenarios on the product page.
http://slitherine.com/products/product.asp?gid=712
But nothing is final.

[mhladnik]

Why would quality suffer because of more missions?

PC didn´t have that problem and the Grand Campaigns are what keeps most ppl playing IMO.

Sorry, I framed it as either-or, and completely wrongly. What I wanted to say was: I'm happy with the regular number of scenarios as long as they are high-quality ones

[Navman2854]

OOOOOOO

[WarHomer]

Only 12 missions covering 1942-1943 is disappointing in my opinion. That would give around an entire total of 36 missions for the entire german campaign, including the western missions in the first DLC.

That´s nothing compared to PC's Grand Campaign and quite underwhelming for 6 years of war.

Just the other day I found myself abandoning OOB once again to return to PC (this time blind full Italian Africa Corps) since I´ve already tired out of Burma Road (2 playthroughs). With the short amount of missions there just isn´t that much replaybility and room for diversity.

[kondi754]

Panzer Corps GC is a tactical level game, while Order of Battle is an operational level game.
For example: in PC GC for the Soviet encirclement under the Kiev 1941 were 3 or 4 scenarios, the OoB shows the whole operation in one mission.
There will be probably one scenario for operation Bagration (liberation of Belarus),in PC several missions.
You can not compare these 2 games. They are created on a different scale.

[WarHomer]

I beg to differ. I most certainly wish to compare the two since they are so much alike and I really hope that OOB will reach the status of PC and keep me coming back and back and back like PC.

[kondi754]

I think the differences are much more than similarities and OoB is simply better than PC for me.

[bru888]

WH, good discussion but I agree with kondi. That's not saying much of anything, especially officially since I'm speaking only as a fan, but the approach that OOB is taking seems about right to me. Admittedly, I have not played much PC but I do have a standard to go by: Erik's adaptations of PC's campaigns with dozens of scenarios linked together. Dozens. He needs 45 missions to get his Blitzkrieg campaigns through 1942.

I love OOB, but I have other things to do. 24 Blitzkrieg/Panzerkrieg missions taking us midway through 1943 seem fine to me. By the way, when you say "That would give around an entire total of 36 missions for the entire german campaign, including the western missions in the first DLC," are you talking about Winter War? What other western missions have I missed? [Whips out his credit card, ready to purchase as necessary . . . ]

[VKing23]

First off, new content is always welcomed! But I'm slightly disappointed about the German DLC, the hole campaign is just static/historic, no matter how good players perform during it. For me it's more fun to actually change the course of war, just like in the Japanese Campaign (Rising Sun, great campaign by the way), but that also means you have to show a bit of creativity, imagination and some historic sense/knowledge to do all/some "fantasy" scenario maps and to make sure them being actually plausible + which also means extra work to be done. On the other hand I think it's OK to stay historic with every Allied campaign up to the last scenarios where devs can get a bit out of line (like an allied assault on Berlin in any future US Campaign/Europe or Operation Coronet in US Pacific) but even there things went a bit over the moon lately with the Burma DLC and those "fantasy" units like jet fighters and Tiger tanks and stuff like that in the last scenario. There we went ahistorical "all-in" for the sake of offering a challenge for players, but that's quite the wrong approach I think.

Anyway, I will buy "Panzerkrieg" no matter what, I really like OOB since the beginning, it's fun to play overall and I want the devs to continue with the franchise!

[bru888]

For me it's more fun to actually change the course of war . . . but that also means you have to show a bit of creativity, imagination and some historic sense/knowledge to do all/some "fantasy" scenario maps and to make sure them being actually plausible + which also means extra work to be done.

This neatly sums up what I did / am doing with my scenarios. It's not easy, because it means departing from any historical script. How should the scenario end? Should either side be capable of winning and if so, how to create a balance? On the one hand, it has to be interesting to play. On the other hand, one cannot go too far out of the bounds of plausibility. It's not easy.

[WarHomer]

Re. Bru888´s
"I love OOB, but I have other things to do. 24 Blitzkrieg/Panzerkrieg missions taking us midway through 1943 seem fine to me. By the way, when you say "That would give around an entire total of 36 missions for the entire german campaign, including the western missions in the first DLC," are you talking about Winter War? What other western missions have I missed? [Whips out his credit card, ready to purchase as necessary . . . ]"

In the abovementioned thread the develeopers state that they will conclude the german campaign in one DLC after Panzerkrieg and if that contains the same amount of missions as the two first, then that would give us only 36 mission for the entire war.

That´s selling it quite short in my book and doesn´t allow for an epic feeling/game like we had with the Grand Campaign in PC. I love OOB also and find it superior in almost all other aspects but the lack of continuation/carry-over really detracts.

Re "what if" I also wish to be able to influence the outcome and direction of the war, but understand that this is very difficult to accomplish right (and to everybodys satisfaction), so the developers will have to make some hard choices.

[bru888]

In the abovementioned thread the develeopers state that they will conclude the german campaign in one DLC after Panzerkrieg and if that contains the same amount of missions as the two first, then that would give us only 36 mission for the entire war.

Please don't be annoyed, but is this statement accurate? Because, they still need to finish the Eastern Front with another year-and-a-half to go and they have not even touched the Western Front at all yet. Maybe it's the terms you are using. When you say "the german campaign," are you talking about just the Eastern Front? Because then I can understand and perhaps agree with you a bit although to me, 36 campaigns is enough for the Eastern Front in my opinion.

Aside from time and interest limitations (I do love OOB but there are limits!), there is the other idea that I expanded upon in the "OOB Down the Road" thread. Which is, I would like to see OOB expand to other historical conflicts in the future. I went a bit "over the top" in talking about WWI possibilities (get it? pun intended) in that thread but the more I typed, the more ideas came to me. I want OOB to finish WWII first, and cover it well, but 50 or more campaigns dealing with Germans vs. Soviets on the Eastern Front would bore me after a while and delay the Artistocrats from moving on to new historical topics.

As always, we are all going to have our differences of opinion on how the game is developed, what it covers, etc. The developers will make up their minds and do what they will, hopefully having taken into account our opinions just a bit.

[Andy2012]

@bru, Warhomer: Let's not forget the possibility of Afrikakorps. And there still might be a hypothetical German campaign with fancy 1946 tech and an invasion of the US and that stuff.
BTW, there is still, as bru mentioned, Erik's port of the PC Grand Campaign. It's here, free and great. No reason to whine.

[GUNDOBALDO08]

We will see germans and soviet tank's camouflage?

[Cptn_Miller]

SSSSWWWWEEEEEEETTTTT !!!! Just finished blitzkrieg for the 3rd time, the Wehrmacht/WaffenSS are ready and waiting, this new core is gonna wipe ussr and re-write history!