Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

[babyshark]

I think Slitherine is underestimating the value of appearance. I have been a police officer for 34 years. The fist step in being professional is looking professional. Maybe that doesn't apply to retail ... But I believe it does.

To quote Proposition Joe from The Wire, Season 1: "Hey, look the part, be the part, motherf@#cker."

Marc

[hazelbark]

When we are talking about a printable copy do you mean like the V2 playtest rules we used? If so ... yuck

I have already voiced my desire ... I prefer a V2 rulebook as nice as and similar to the V1 rulebook. One thing that got me to try FoG was the professional presentation of the rulebook. I bought it as a "vacation" read out of curiosity. I was pleasantly suprised by both the quality of the book and the rules. I have been playing ever since. I think Slitherine is underestimating the value of appearance. I have been a police officer for 34 years. The fist step in being professional is looking professional. Maybe that doesn't apply to retail ... But I believe it does.

I wish them the best with V2.

Mike B

I sincerely doubt that there are going to do a bad job. that is not their history. They have added a course correction. let hem get their ducks in a row. They are not dumb. They are listening.

[davidandlynda]

Thanks JD and team for having a second thought,apologies for anything we may have said out of turn,in my defense I am the original technophobe and I just switched off at the mention of apps and things.
Anyway I'm not expecting anything over night but what do you think the chances of by the end of the year,I think that would give everyone a chance to get into it in time for the Challenge in April
David

[mbsparta]

When we are talking about a printable copy do you mean like the V2 playtest rules we used? If so ... yuck

I have already voiced my desire ... I prefer a V2 rulebook as nice as and similar to the V1 rulebook. One thing that got me to try FoG was the professional presentation of the rulebook. I bought it as a "vacation" read out of curiosity. I was pleasantly suprised by both the quality of the book and the rules. I have been playing ever since. I think Slitherine is underestimating the value of appearance. I have been a police officer for 34 years. The fist step in being professional is looking professional. Maybe that doesn't apply to retail ... But I believe it does.

I wish them the best with V2.

Mike B

I sincerely doubt that there are going to do a bad job. that is not their history. They have added a course correction. let hem get their ducks in a row. They are not dumb. They are listening.

.... Fair enough

[Strategos69]

When we are talking about a printable copy do you mean like the V2 playtest rules we used? If so ... yuck

I have already voiced my desire ... I prefer a V2 rulebook as nice as and similar to the V1 rulebook. One thing that got me to try FoG was the professional presentation of the rulebook. I bought it as a "vacation" read out of curiosity. I was pleasantly suprised by both the quality of the book and the rules. I have been playing ever since. I think Slitherine is underestimating the value of appearance.

I totally agree. I think that it was a great part of the success for non tournament players. Indeed you are offering something that people cannot get by themselves. Nowadays Slitherine should keep their strong points, specially when you sell knowledge. When nicely wrapped it makes the final product better. I was satisfied by it even before testing the rules.

[shadowdragon]

When we are talking about a printable copy do you mean like the V2 playtest rules we used? If so ... yuck

I have already voiced my desire ... I prefer a V2 rulebook as nice as and similar to the V1 rulebook. One thing that got me to try FoG was the professional presentation of the rulebook. I bought it as a "vacation" read out of curiosity. I was pleasantly suprised by both the quality of the book and the rules. I have been playing ever since. I think Slitherine is underestimating the value of appearance.

I totally agree. I think that it was a great part of the success for non tournament players. Indeed you are offering something that people cannot get by themselves. Nowadays should keep their strong points, specially when you sell knowledge. When nicely wrapped it makes the final product better. I was satisfied by it even before testing the rules.

Slitherine has already stated that there was no business case for a v2 copy just like v1. So are you saying that you'd rather have a v2 copy just like v1 or nothing at all? Sure I'd love a lovely v2 copy like v1, but that's not to be and I'm happy to settle for what Slitherine is currently offering.

By the way, if you do have the opportunity please have a look National Geographic's digital magazine version. It is very professional and offers many other options not available in the hard copy magazine.

[ShrubMiK]

>The *fist* step in being professional is looking professional.

Freudian slip, coming from a police officer?

...sorry, too good an opportunity to resist...!

Seriously: everyone is entitled to their opinion, but quite frankly mine is the opposite. I don't give two hoots about the photograhps...they are nice and all to look at, but if they make the rulebook bigger, heavier, more expensive, and harder to navigate (simply becuase there are more pages to flick between) then I think they are counterproductive. As I said, IMO.

Now it will be interesting to see what happens...if an electronic rulebook can add value over and above a paper ruleset - not just in terms of updates, but also in things like better indexing, quick links tro related rules sections in other parts of the book, tooltips on items in the quick-reference section, etc. then it will justify its existence in a positive way. Whether that should be alongside or instead of a paper version is a different question. I'd be prepared to pay for an appropriate device (no I don't want to cart my laptop around!) if I can see it is adding value. How much I'd be prepared to pay depends primarily on whether I see it being also useful for other things, so a good choice of platforms helps there.

[Strategos69]

I think that there are three types of customers for V2: those wanting an electronic set, those demanding rules in a format they can have access to and those asking for a book. I think that we are simply different types of customers and we ask for different kind of things. The problem I see with a paper version that is exactly the same or worse in technical aspects than V1 is that it is less appealing. I bought DBM, DBMM and their lists and those were one of the worst purchases I have ever done. You buy before trying and for the DBMM, after realizing it wasn't good for my regular group, then I could only think that this was a waste of money. At least with the Hail Caesar I can have a look to their outstanding miniatures and look for tips for painting. In the other hand, I am amazed at how Battlefront and Games Workshop still make that people collect their army books. Their books are so nice that I consult them when I want to paint something. They provide added value, not just the rules.

Everytime there is a new version players owning the previous version have to be convinced that they have to get the new one. There are many developments and things interesting that could (or will) be added (incorporation of FAQ, better order of the book, hints for campaigns, for example) or that would make this new version more attractive (new illustrations, diagrams).

When you release a product, you have to convince your customers that it is not just a change of a few wordings here and there but a whole new (and better product). So far, I have not read the new funcionalities that the digital version will bring (and I am certain that they might be many). Probably it is too early to tell, but at a certain point the digital version has to provide added value. I have always thought that they could sell army list generators for specific armies. If they price it right, they will sell more than books because that adds value to what you already own.

Respecting the viability of a printed version, maybe the formule will not have to be the same as V1, but printing on demand, where the risks assumed are limited and you only print after collecting the money (or a reservation price) could make it more viable though more expensive.

[KiwiWarlord]

Two things about the WRG rules, they were concise and cheap to produce.
Black & white with some diagrams.

After seeing JDM's post re a paper version of V2 and as I work in the Printing & Packaging Industry I picked up an old WRG army list book ( Book 4, June 1994) and dropped it off to one of our clients for a quote to print 2000 copies from a print ready file.

2000 copies of 80 pages, size 240mm x 170mm, 1 colour cover, text black throughout, crease cover, fold, staple,trim & pack using print ready file ( PDF preferred )
NZ$ 5760 + tax (GST of 15% which is exempt for export orders)
at the moment the NZ$ buys approx 50p so that's approx 2,880 pounds
Less than 1.5 pounds a copy.

If sold on-line only through the FoG Shop then distribution costs can be kept low.
How does that look ??

[zoltan]

Two things about the WRG rules, they were concise and cheap to produce.
Black & white with some diagrams.

After seeing JDM's post re a paper version of V2 and as I work in the Printing & Packaging Industry I picked up an old WRG army list book ( Book 4, June 1994) and dropped it off to one of our clients for a quote to print 2000 copies from a print ready file.

2000 copies of 80 pages, size 240mm x 170mm, 1 colour cover, text black throughout, crease cover, fold, staple,trim & pack using print ready file ( PDF preferred )
NZ$ 5760 + tax (GST of 15% which is exempt for export orders)
at the moment the NZ$ buys approx 50p so that's approx 2,880 pounds
Less than 1.5 pounds a copy.

If sold on-line only through the FoG Shop then distribution costs can be kept low.
How does that look ??

Clearly your skill set is grossly overpaid Brian! I'm sure we can get it printed in a sweat shop for a fraction of the cost you quote.

[grahambriggs]

Two things about the WRG rules, they were concise and cheap to produce.
Black & white with some diagrams.

After seeing JDM's post re a paper version of V2 and as I work in the Printing & Packaging Industry I picked up an old WRG army list book ( Book 4, June 1994) and dropped it off to one of our clients for a quote to print 2000 copies from a print ready file.

2000 copies of 80 pages, size 240mm x 170mm, 1 colour cover, text black throughout, crease cover, fold, staple,trim & pack using print ready file ( PDF preferred )
NZ$ 5760 + tax (GST of 15% which is exempt for export orders)
at the moment the NZ$ buys approx 50p so that's approx 2,880 pounds
Less than 1.5 pounds a copy.

If sold on-line only through the FoG Shop then distribution costs can be kept low.
How does that look ??

But this won't simply be a re-printing. Its a new version

[KiwiWarlord]

But this won't simply be a re-printing. Its a new version

Yes that's right, the new V2.

The quote was for 80 pages of text supplied in digital format ie PDF. The army list book was just a sample for the printer to base the quote on.

[Strategos69]

true

But this won't simply be a re-printing. Its a new version

True... but they don't have to start from scratch. If they keep the former files of V1 and if they used templates, it is not as hard as it might seem. In the journal I worked for even journalist could lay out their own page. Certainly they would have to pay for a professional lay out, but it should not be as expensive as V1. In another forum I was told that 3.000 euros plus the price of illustrations and diagrams is a common price in Spain for a designer starting from scratch for around 150 pages of work.

Certainly 1,5 pounds is too little as a price and does not take into account many other costs, but 15 is reasonable. Then you have all the cost derived from distribution and alike that make the price rise more plus profit. The main fear to release a copy as V1 for any company is not selling the whole stock (and what to do with the remaining stocks that will be inmediately outdated), and that is also the reason why limited (or on demand) editions are more and more trendy in boardgames, wargames and rolegames. In those cases I have also seen that they try to get rid off the stocks at very low prices, sometimes offering in printed papers or stickers to add to your copy the new rules. That way new players can get into the game at a very low price.

[KiwiWarlord]

Clearly your skill set is grossly overpaid Brian! I'm sure we can get it printed in a sweat shop for a fraction of the cost you quote.

Yes I had a Consultant involved .............

[bahdahbum]

I could swear that the anouncment I read said PC, Mac and iPad with another portable/printable version being considered.

So I have to take my computer with me everywhere I go ..;sorry it is not a Laptop , neither a tablet ...

Or does Slitherine consider offering a tablet or laptop to every player ...

I am disgusted by such thinking .

Not everybody is willing to go with his laptop to a tourament and I do not read rules from a laptop on a screen it is annoying and difficult for the eyes

[IainMcNeil]

Yes we are looking at a printed version based on the feedback, but that doesn't seem to matter to some. Any excuse for people to rant and be irate on the internet is not to be missed!

[Sarmaticus]

Yes we are looking at a printed version based on the feedback, but that doesn't seem to matter to some. Any excuse for people to rant and be irate on the internet is not to be missed!

A bare minimum of market research would have told you that your customers would be upset by the ipad/pc/mac-only announcement: When you aspire to become a standard for a large part of the hobby, there is a certain trust involved and that might seem to have been betrayed.
Now, a belated and rather vague recantation is received against a background of distrust: It's hardly surprising.
But for such general iration, would the U-turn have come about?
When one has right royally fouled up, it's best not to play the wounded victim. Just IMvHO.

[vexillia]

Yes we are looking at a printed version based on the feedback, but that doesn't seem to matter to some.

Some! I think you've got the rose tinted glasses turned up full.

[Gandamar]

If sold on-line only through the FoG Shop then distribution costs can be kept low.
How does that look ??

To me? BAD! I'd have to pay overpriced shipping (something like US$40) plus abusive custom duties (a total of 30% over the product price PLUS shipping costs), which would cost almost double than the price of the book alone. I'd rather save for an iPad and just buy the electronic version (which I won't be doing, not in its current incarnation, anyway, I'll wait for an Android compatible version or something similar).

[hazelbark]

When one has right royally fouled up, it's best not to play the wounded victim. Just IMvHO.

And when one is victorious it is rude to dance on a friend's grave.