Big Panzer Corps Tournament

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:58 am

Hi guys and Panzercorps friends all around the world,

the German Panzerliga, also former official Panzer General Site in Germany, is starting an Open Tournament in September 2011. We decided to implement Panzercorps into our supported ladder system. For a hopefully good beginning we want you to take part in our Big Tournament. Open means that also player outside the Panzerliga may join to the tourney. But we hope to watch many other Panzercorps Multiplayer games in our league too. Here are the preliminary Rules of the Panzercorps Tournament:

1) Every player has a known player name and an email address.
2) Playing mode (group phase or Elimination mode) and schedule is not fixed yet because we wait how many players will sign in. Registration deadline is 2011-09-15.
3) Following scenarios should be played: Battle of the Bzura, Bocage Breakout, Hylan Valley, Partisan Uprising, Urban Warfare, Bersaglieri and the Bear, Operation Huntress, The Frozen North, War Games
4) Every game has to be a paired game and has to be finished in 60 days. Each turn should be played in 2 days. Exceptions to this rule have to be communicated in advance to the opponent or arbitrator. Any case of doubt is judged by arbitrator as well.
5) Results and important messages will be announced by the Panzerliga Homepage. It is a German Forum but the Tournament is handled in English and German.

Watch and sign in here:

http://www.panzerliga.de/en/docs/manoev ... rsicht.php

Watch our Forum too:

http://www.panzerliga.de/dt/docs/forum/ ... m.php?f=59

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:14 am

Ohhhhhh ahhhhhh...

I have to admit, I do like that list of acceptable scenarios.

Although I notice on the website, Hunters in the Atlantic is listed, but it does not appear in your post here.

3) Following scenarios should be played: Battle of the Bzura, Bocage Breakout, Hylan Valley, Partisan Uprising, Urban Warfare, Bersaglieri and the Bear, Hunters in the Atlantic, Operation Huntress, The Frozen North, War Games

3) Following scenarios should be played: Battle of the Bzura, Bocage Breakout, Hylan Valley, Partisan Uprising, Urban Warfare, Bersaglieri and the Bear, Operation Huntress, The Frozen North, War Games

Any reason for the discrepancy?

axlroselm · Post by **axlroselm** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:40 pm

How can we join the tournament? Use the email address in the register section?

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:53 pm

@ Kerensky: I am not quite sure if a water based scenario like "Hunters in the Atlantic" is fitting in a Panzer Corps tourny. It should not be played but if the players really want it there would be a way I guess...

@axlroselm: You may sign in here or take the link above. You could also email me: heiko.haupt at versanet.de

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:24 pm

That sounds like a reasonable ruling, better remove it from your website then.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:27 am

You are right! Better synchronize all rules...

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:20 pm

Any update on this? I got an e-mail, but it didn't contain any details on what to do or how to proceed, other than to visit the website, which leads to
http://www.panzer-club.eu/pg-1-lite/mei ... f541212105

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:30 am

Hi Kerensky,

The Mail you got is from a different side not from panzerliga! I got it too. We don't forget you. We need some days time to activate some more players for the tourny. We have some who already signed in but not enough for a real tournament. Holidays in Germany are over now and I hope to catch some players in the next time.

Regards Amadeus

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:26 pm

Hi guys, small update for you all.

We have already 10 registrations for the tourny.

01 Kerensky
02 Dam
03 El Ssid
04 Longtimethebear
05 Yoki
06 KongKrog
07 Generalex
08 El Condoro
09 Battlemace
10 Rupert

For the scenarios to play I recognize the point of view from Razz in the Matrix Forum. His point of view is that Operation Huntress, Urban Warfare and the Frozen North are not balanced.

01 Battle of the Bzura
02 Bocage Breakout
03 Hylan Valley
04 Partisan Uprising
05 Bersaglieri and the Bear
06 War Games
-------------------------------------------
07 Operation Huntress (favor for the Allies)
08 Urban Warfare (favor for the Allies)
09 The Frozen North (favor the Germans)
10 Hunters in the Atlantic (waterbased scenario)

So this is our first Tournament and we have to figure out what is REALLY fair. At the moment I want to cancel these scenarios (07 - 10). But any suggestions about this issue are pretty welcome.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:48 pm

Not to disagree with Razz's point of view, but if games are mirrored does it matter if they're not wholly balanced? Both players get the same advantages/disadvantages. Personally, I think for the first PzC tournament it should be about fun and playing and not worry too much about getting balance (the Holy Grail of war games, I saw someone describe it as).

[Edit:] actually victory conditions are going to problematic in PzC. In PG2 it was pretty easy because it was all turn-based (BV, V, MV) and so a clear winner could be determined fairly easily (in most cases). PzC victory conditions are not so easy. Could the scenarios be modded for the tournament so that they are more easy to determine the winner?

For example, if Huntress is almost impossible for the British to lose, perhaps the victor can be determined by how quickly they get that Panther prototype to the map edge rather than simply if they succeed in doing so.

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:00 pm

I'm also don't see a problem with imbalance if using a mirrored system. Though if they are unbalanced too much, then everyone will have the same win/loss ratios and no one can be determined winner that way.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:07 pm

@ El Condoro: I agree with you but isn't it possible to find a winner when comparing in which turn you won? That is possible in PzC too.

Any other thoughts?

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:46 pm

While I suppose Huntress and Hunters are fairly unique and come with some imbalances and unique victory conditions(I actually think the Germans have the real advantage in Huntress because of the implementation of rail transport), I respectfully disagree with you placing TFN and UW into the unbalanced category.

Urban Warfare doesn't even have Allied units BTW. There are British and Americans against Soviets.
The Frozen North already compensates for generally 'better' German equipment with increased Soviet Prestige and core slots.

Unless you can prove these two scenarios and their imbalances with documentation and not off the cuff comments from another forum, I would ask you reconsider your decision.

Even so, El Condoro makes a good point:

Not to disagree with Razz's point of view, but if games are mirrored does it matter if they're not wholly balanced? Both players get the same advantages/disadvantages. Personally, I think for the first PzC tournament it should be about fun and playing and not worry too much about getting balance (the Holy Grail of war games, I saw someone describe it as).

I would have no issue dropping Hunters and Huntress as valid tournament maps, but TFN and UW should be included.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:30 am

Kerensky wrote:..., I would ask you reconsider your decision...

We don't make a decision yet. The rules are still preliminary. When I said, I agree, then to the point that both players have the same advantage.

The Tournament is for us all to have fun. So I guess one solution is that we could make a small hint that there could be advantages. Thanks for your comment.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:40 pm

Our Tournament has just begun. All registered players please watch your email account. Any questions please email to me. Have fun...

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:32 pm

@Generalalex

Got your two maps picked out?

Generalex · Post by **Generalex** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:36 am

Hey Kerensky!

I just read the news! Nice to see you as my opponent. So it won't be too easy for me ^^
I would like to play Hylan Valley or Bersaglieri and the Bear.
Now its up to you to choose a map.
I hope that it is not a problem for you if i need more than two days for once or twice, because i am working on my bachelor thesis at the moment.
Usually i will play one round each day, but there might be some days i just won't have time to play.
Just tell me if it is not okay for you, because then you should have won the first round...

Otherwise, let the show begin!

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:22 am

Everybody luvs Hylan Valley... but that's okay, so do I.

I'll let you choose your preferred side and then we'll get started.

Generalex · Post by **Generalex** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:44 am

Games should be paired games so i do not have to choose a side.
But i don't know how we can find out who won if everyone wins one game. Maybe by number of turns or so...

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 am

Oh right, paired games for this tourny. As for scoring, I guess we'll see how the paired games turn out. Game is up, password is sent to you by PM. GL HF!