Panzer Corps2 inauguration tournament

[Riker]

on my 3rd axis turn in round 2 I was not able to move any unit. Is this a known bug? Also, on joining this move, i could not witness my enema's movements. This is my first Panzer Corps 2 game..
thx for feedback, Riker

[pupski]

I am using paratroopers against an opponent that uses no air force, so funny. A shame he kills them all the time and has better ground operations but at least it evens everything out a bit. The tournament is a great way to learn to play the game better. I missed the part about different version of arty that are doing counter-battery or giving support fire for units next to them. Won't make that mistake again. I would love to know how the score is counted regarding killed units and such. Also in the first round I got the all the victory locations in one match but that doesn't seem to give any bonus. Also the other match wasn't finished while I was leading by a lot but it didn't give me any extra points for missed rounds. Fun tournament that will be more fun after some polishing. And I want more paratroopers .

[ElLobo]

Using parachutes can be also a big help,... but of course i understand it is annyoing when your opponent is sending them like snowballs,...

It keeps you busy in the back and does not give you an chance for attack,...

probably it would be better to buy units, and later on you´re only allowed to refill them with reserv troops, and you are limited by buying new troops?? i think that would solve it better and make it more complicated to use them so,....excessive? because when it´s gone, you do not get a new one,.....

[pupski]

I think using the paratroopers is a bit much but they could be easily countered by planes although I am not sure how effective. But if the air is free and no slots are used for planes to attack or protect the air that gives excessive amounts of ground units so it evens out. Normally you have to protect the paratroopers with planes so it would be costly. But in this case it counters the excessive amount of ground units. It is still just a game, not a simulation. What drives me a bit crazy is all these towns protected by bridge engineers

[Catacol]

I think using the paratroopers is a bit much but they could be easily countered by planes although I am not sure how effective. But if the air is free and no slots are used for planes to attack or protect the air that gives excessive amounts of ground units so it evens out. Normally you have to protect the paratroopers with planes so it would be costly. But in this case it counters the excessive amount of ground units. It is still just a game, not a simulation. What drives me a bit crazy is all these towns protected by bridge engineers

- cheap garrison tools!

Agree it is a game and not a simulation - but it does try to be an accurate simulation as best as can be put together, and slot size of fighters on a 70 slot max game means there is no way of stopping paras dropping all over the place. Maybe paras should have a bigger slot size as a unit - that would make them less attractive to buy. Being size 4, the same as other infantry, makes them a very easy purchase decision.

Good games by the way - enjoying them....

[pupski]

Yes, paratroopers are surprisingly cheap, almost same as regular infantry. And there are no shipping costs. I like to solve the game puzzle in a more realistic way but I made some mistakes at the start, especially with the Russian and then it gets hard to stay in the game without using tricks like paratroopers which at least forces you, in a very kind way, to spread your forces a bit more. I played a lot of Order of Battle and there you have the separate slots for air sea and land units, and I think the paratroopers use is scenario based, based on a total amount (or isn't it?). Love the games in the match, never learned so fast about all the different ways that units can explode, thanks .

[Catacol]

Can round 3 be a different map? Twice on one map is enough......!

[Folklore]

Paratroopers are there to make the game more dynamic and to avoid situations where the entire game is just a clump of armies fighting each other. In bigger maps, you have to think if right now you really want to waste 4 slots for a unit that will not be fighting at all for 3 straight rounds. In the tournament map, the slots are very tight and Paras don't provide much threat alone, until they're used to get the cities or better positioning. But it's very easy to defend the key positions with a 1 slot unit.
It's really funny to see campaign-only players who leave their hexes undefended and stop playing when you get their supply or the majority of victory hexes by using Paratroopers. I guess AI never uses them in single-player modes?

on my 3rd axis turn in round 2 I was not able to move any unit. Is this a known bug? Also, on joining this move, i could not witness my enema's movements. This is my first Panzer Corps 2 game..
thx for feedback, Riker

Did the game restart not help? I remember this bug was pretty common in the old versions of the game.

[ElLobo]

I think using the paratroopers is a bit much but they could be easily countered by planes although I am not sure how effective. But if the air is free and no slots are used for planes to attack or protect the air that gives excessive amounts of ground units so it evens out. Normally you have to protect the paratroopers with planes so it would be costly. But in this case it counters the excessive amount of ground units. It is still just a game, not a simulation. What drives me a bit crazy is all these towns protected by bridge engineers

- cheap garrison tools!

Agree it is a game and not a simulation - but it does try to be an accurate simulation as best as can be put together, and slot size of fighters on a 70 slot max game means there is no way of stopping paras dropping all over the place. Maybe paras should have a bigger slot size as a unit - that would make them less attractive to buy. Being size 4, the same as other infantry, makes them a very easy purchase decision.

Good games by the way - enjoying them....

You´re right, it´s a game and it´s fun!!!! no one should take it serious!!! (sometimes i do not understand why everything need to be soo realistic, i guess some frogott it´s about having fun!!!)

I think for such a round it is perfect,....

I enjoyed allot to use this one possible paratrooper, and i gave a lot problems with this single unit to mine opponent,....and some did the same with me; and i didn´t used any anti-arcraft unit to save a units, but these do not take a lot space,...probably in the next round i should change my strategie,....I´m writing quiet a lot about how i was playing....

And sorry, but the bridge engineers are sooo cheap, and helpful!!! I try not to leava any city unprotected!!!

[Catacol]

Paratroopers are there to make the game more dynamic and to avoid situations where the entire game is just a clump of armies fighting each other. In bigger maps, you have to think if right now you really want to waste 4 slots for a unit that will not be fighting at all for 3 straight rounds. In the tournament map, the slots are very tight and Paras don't provide much threat alone, until they're used to get the cities or better positioning. But it's very easy to defend the key positions with a 1 slot unit.
It's really funny to see campaign-only players who leave their hexes undefended and stop playing when you get their supply or the majority of victory hexes by using Paratroopers. I guess AI never uses them in single-player modes?

on my 3rd axis turn in round 2 I was not able to move any unit. Is this a known bug? Also, on joining this move, i could not witness my enema's movements. This is my first Panzer Corps 2 game..
thx for feedback, Riker

Did the game restart not help? I remember this bug was pretty common in the old versions of the game.

My only follow up here is that an ordinary ground infantry unit is also 4 slots. The reality is that a para unit, at 4 slots, is an automatic and easy choice of purchase and certainly not a waste. There is no skill to this - just purchase fly and drop turn after turn. In strategy wargaming terms this isn't good. If a para unit was 6 slots then we can begin to talk strategy.... and PC2 at its best is a combination of strategy and tactics.

[Folklore]

" There is no skill to this - just purchase fly and drop turn after turn" - that's just giving free points to your opponent.

[pupski]

I think I made him rich.. Not sure how many points you get for destroying units. But still it is saving your own position and point value while not stealing points from your opponent so that balances out. I learned a lot more about the units. Didn't notice before what the difference was between the arty that supports infantry only or AT only or combined (like the 150mm German) or does counter battery fire. It was silly to see my wrong arty not supporting the infantry and after that getting smashed itself. It was also kind of funny and I will probably not make some of those mistakes again.

[Catacol]

" There is no skill to this - just purchase fly and drop turn after turn" - that's just giving free points to your opponent.

Depends where they are dropped - and whether 1 unit is followed by another. Anyway this debate could go round and round and people will have their preferences and that's fine. We just adapt to the game and play on. All good. Personally I have wargamed for a long time with a desire to see as much realism as possible, and I build multiplayer scenarios that have at least a passing resemblance in map design to the real battlefield and try and setup scenarios where force elements are within reasonable limits. Para use was extremely resource heavy in real life and so was rare. I'd rather see fewer paras and a greater emphasis on front line assault/breakthrough/exploit simulation than firefight para landings constantly....but that's just me. We are all different.

Reminds me of an online multiplayer random scenario I agreed to play with someone not long ago where on the first turn 2/3 of the objectives were secured by para drops before I had even had a chance to move a single unit. Ha - made me chuckle. Game over before it started! In general I think there is a challenge for the game designers to blend paras into the game better. I think I'd do it via cost and slot size. In my own units file this is how I have made sure air forces dont get ridiculously large (doubled their slot size) and also ensured that counter battery heavy gun fire doesn't rule every roost (big increase in prestige cost.) These would be easy adjustments for the designers to make to the game so that we dont have to mod them ourselves and I'm a bit surprised more work hasn't gone into the unit roster since launch. Very few adjustments at all have been made.

[Riker]

Riker wrote: ↑
08 Apr 2021 23:17
on my 3rd axis turn in round 2 I was not able to move any unit. Is this a known bug? Also, on joining this move, i could not witness my enema's movements. This is my first Panzer Corps 2 game..
thx for feedback, Riker

Folklore wrote: Did the game restart not help? I remember this bug was pretty common in the old versions of the game.

Thank you for your replay, Folklore. At which moment should i restart? As soon as i normally should start playing hit Crtl-Alt-Del and close PC2? and then re-start?

The same happened again on my 4th and 5th axis turn... I cannot see my enemy moving and attacking, but i can see that he has has moved units and done damage to my units..

Thanks for help, regards, Riker

[Folklore]

Anyway this debate could go round and round and people will have their preferences and that's fine. We just adapt to the game and play on. All good. Personally I have wargamed for a long time with a desire to see as much realism as possible, and I build multiplayer scenarios that have at least a passing resemblance in map design to the real battlefield and try and setup scenarios where force elements are within reasonable limits. Para use was extremely resource heavy in real life and so was rare. I'd rather see fewer paras and a greater emphasis on front line assault/breakthrough/exploit simulation than firefight para landings constantly....but that's just me. We are all different.

There is nothing to debate. Paratroopers are fine in the multiplayer, except for the first player problem. And you have to get enough multiplayer experience to form an opinion. In the tournament, the first player problem is disregarded due to mirrored maps. If 1 paratrooper limit gives you that many problems, you are doing something wrong. As for the realism and immersion, you can have that in a single-player mode.

The same happened again on my 4th and 5th axis turn... I cannot see my enemy moving and attacking, but i can see that he has has moved units and done damage to my units..

Thanks for help, regards, Riker

If that happens on every turn, I can only suggest fully reinstalling the game. Uninstall the game, then delete the game's settings folder:
C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Local\PanzerCorps2.
And delete game's cache folder:
Documents/My Games/Panzer Corps 2/Cache.
Reinstall the game again. Alternatively, you can post in the tech problem forum here or under Steam. Maybe the devs would suggest something else.

[Riker]

Riker wrote: ↑
10 Apr 2021 18:53
The same happened again on my 4th and 5th axis turn... I cannot see my enemy moving and attacking, but i can see that he has has moved units and done damage to my units..

Thanks for help, regards, Riker

Folklore replied: If that happens on every turn, I can only suggest fully reinstalling the game. Uninstall the game, then delete the game's settings folder:
C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Local\PanzerCorps2.
And delete game's cache folder:
Documents/My Games/Panzer Corps 2/Cache.
Reinstall the game again. Alternatively, you can post in the tech problem forum here or under Steam. Maybe the devs would suggest something else.


Thank you for your reaction, Folklore, as this is only my first multiplay game, i will try 1 or 2 more multi games.. if it happens again, i think re-installing might be a good option... Thanks and have fun playing!
Riker

[Catacol]

Anyway this debate could go round and round and people will have their preferences and that's fine. We just adapt to the game and play on. All good. Personally I have wargamed for a long time with a desire to see as much realism as possible, and I build multiplayer scenarios that have at least a passing resemblance in map design to the real battlefield and try and setup scenarios where force elements are within reasonable limits. Para use was extremely resource heavy in real life and so was rare. I'd rather see fewer paras and a greater emphasis on front line assault/breakthrough/exploit simulation than firefight para landings constantly....but that's just me. We are all different.

There is nothing to debate. Paratroopers are fine in the multiplayer, except for the first player problem. And you have to get enough multiplayer experience to form an opinion. In the tournament, the first player problem is disregarded due to mirrored maps. If 1 paratrooper limit gives you that many problems, you are doing something wrong. As for the realism and immersion, you can have that in a single-player mode.

Strong words - and you are walking in circles. "Paratroopers are fine....except for the first player problem". OK - so you acknowledge one problem with them then straight away though you ignored the obvious one on slot size. "And you have to get enough multiplayer experience to form an opinion" - are you suggesting I haven't got much multiplayer wargaming or PC2 experience? - you dont know me at all... In addition I have won all my tournament games so far so it isn't giving me "that many problems" - my suggestion was based on realism though I acknowledged that everyone is different and mine is just a point of view.

So I think there IS something to debate and that isn't negated by your blunt assertions.

[Folklore]

1 Para limit makes "meaningful ground operations impossible" indicates that it is a huge problem for you.
"Reminds me of an online multiplayer random scenario I agreed to play with someone not long ago where on the first turn 2/3 of the objectives were secured by para drops before I had even had a chance to move a single unit" - you either played a small map or it was bad map randomization, both of those facts imply that you don't have enough random map MP experience to judge anything related to Paratroopers and their usage.
"The obvious one on slot size" - they are a mediocre attacking infantry unit and a mediocre defense unit. You need 3 turns to drop and get them to attack something. Nothing justifies increasing their slot size.
Anyway, back on the topic. I hope there will be more frequent tournaments. It is really fun, despite a lot of participants abandoning the games.

[ESPADATXI]

Of course 1 single parapoorter should not be a major problem, however, I do think that parapoorter enjoy excessive and unreal advantages ... my idea would not be to increase the cost of the slot because this would be artificial, I say simply do the parapooter more real, to begin with, the antiaircraft units should be able to shoot at the parapooret planes in their range, in addition, the fighters should do much more damage to them and above 50% damage for example or in an ambush, it would cause a forced launch ... everything this would make you unable to fly calmly with paratroopers if the opponent has fighters, it would also be more realistic .... who wants to use paratroopers very well, but risks being slaughtered in the air...


I also recognize that it is right that now if you get shot down by a transport plane you lose your transport, I think this is a novelty of the last patches and it seems to me a step in the right direction.

[Catacol]

Of course 1 single parapoorter should not be a major problem, however, I do think that parapoorter enjoy excessive and unreal advantages ... my idea would not be to increase the cost of the slot because this would be artificial, I say simply do the parapooter more real, to begin with, the antiaircraft units should be able to shoot at the parapooret planes in their range, in addition, the fighters should do much more damage to them and above 50% damage for example or in an ambush, it would cause a forced launch ... everything this would make you unable to fly calmly with paratroopers if the opponent has fighters, it would also be more realistic .... who wants to use paratroopers very well, but risks being slaughtered in the air...


I also recognize that it is right that now if you get shot down by a transport plane you lose your transport, I think this is a novelty of the last patches and it seems to me a step in the right direction.

Those suggestions would definitely help. A forced drop when attacked would neutralise their advantage and add risk. Like it. Didn't realise a shot down para = loss of transport. That's good to know.