Blood and Gold

[Trench_Raider]

I'm pretty excited about this one too. I may have to crack out my old poorly painted Tin Soldier Aztecs and repaint/base them for FoG. As I stated in one of the Aztec threads in the army design forum a while back I have nothing but contempt for the Aztecs as a historical culture, but find them irrisistable as a wargame army due to their being extremely colorful and visually apealing. I also like hard charging shock foot armies, so these will fit right in with my play style. The whole "Aztecs are basicly drilled Gauls who can shoot at you" certainly will be fun to try.

Like others have mentioned in this thread, this will be a refreshing change from what Aztecs were classed like in the past. I was involved in the 7th ed. tourny scene back in the '90s and it seemed that every time I attended a tournament i had to fight at least one freaking Aztec army. It was so bad with them, that like many others, I would put together a specific "anti-Aztec" list to take to events that permitted one than one list. The one that worked best for me was an extremely ahistorical Medieval French army (don't ask me why I took that army to open competitions...a glutton for punishment I suppose) in which I bought up every bit of close order heavy foot with pavise that I could in big units , sheltered the knights behind these shooting-proof units and screened my flanks with my own loose order skirmishing crossbowmen, and then simply pushed the Aztecs until they had no place to evade. It even worked on occasion!
Ah memories...

TR

[grahambriggs]

Am I right in assuming there won't be much in the way of heavy foot in this book.
dug out my Aztecs and might get painting, wondering how to base the suit wearers and other foot (not like DBM please, hordes are what put me off!)

Ben

You're in luck Ben. All the battleline foot for the Aztecs are MF, protected, Impact foot, swordsmen, javelins.

[philqw78]

You're in luck Ben. All the battleline foot for the Aztecs are MF, protected, Impact foot, swordsmen, javelins.

Free javelins for MF.
Well at least they won't get to throw them very often, being IF. Another army to scare the Dom Rom?

[grahambriggs]

As interesting as all these posts about these southern softies are, I'm waiting to find out how my hard men from the North Eastern Coastal Forests are treated. Any hints?

Eastern Woodland - the bulk troop type are average MF undrilled bow* impact foot swordsmen. There are some veteren warriors who get to be superionr and these can be either MF or HF.

[philqw78]

Eastern Woodland - the bulk troop type are average MF undrilled bow* impact foot swordsmen. There are some veteren warriors who get to be superionr and these can be either MF or HF.

Bw* and HF at the same time??

[grahambriggs]

You're in luck Ben. All the battleline foot for the Aztecs are MF, protected, Impact foot, swordsmen, javelins.

Free javelins for MF.
Well at least they won't get to throw them very often, being IF. Another army to scare the Dom Rom?

Hmmm. 2 die at 5s both needing to hit at a 2 MU range. Don't think they'll be that scared by that. Plus they're only protected. Just finishing my two Cauchique BGs at the moment. Elite drilled impact foot....

[grahambriggs]

Eastern Woodland - the bulk troop type are average MF undrilled bow* impact foot swordsmen. There are some veteren warriors who get to be superionr and these can be either MF or HF.

Bw* and HF at the same time??

No, the veterans are just IF, Sw

[benos]

cheers for the heads up, 1st base of jaguar warriors pretty much finished. Sounds like i'd better get painting the cuachic troops
Ben

[grahambriggs]

Am I right in assuming there won't be much in the way of heavy foot in this book.
dug out my Aztecs and might get painting, wondering how to base the suit wearers and other foot (not like DBM please, hordes are what put me off!)

Ben

Everyone in the Aztec list is either medium foot or light foot. There is nary a heavy foot BG in sight, infact I don't think there are any heavy foot in the book.

The only ones in there are Iroquois veterans Hammy and that after much debate. Of course many of these armies fought in close order a lot of the time. We settled on MF as the standard in view of the later performance against conquistadors. Even troops that look like they should be good against cavalry in the open (e.g great long spears) suffered against mounted in the open, so took to bad terrain. They also suffered against men on foot with thrusting swords - most American shields and armour were far better at stopping the slashing and crushing types of blows typical of native weaponry. Seemed like MF to us

[benos]

So any tips on how to get the best out of the meso-american armies ?
going to Peru post dissertation (OU so couple of weeks) so should be suitaly inspired

currently looking at painting up 24 or so suit wearers and 6 cuachic for the Aztecs, should make a solid start


Ben

[Trench_Raider]

So any tips on how to get the best out of the meso-american armies ?

I'm planning on running my Aztecs like Gauls that can shoot! Wind them up, and let them go! of course that might lead to disaster in that they lack the mounted to keep their flanks secure while the warband does the work as you would with Gauls. I think that is were your foot skirmishers and carefule use of the terrain will come in.

TR

[Huaxtec15mm]

No "Huaxtecs" makes me a sad Penguin!

[grahambriggs]

So any tips on how to get the best out of the meso-american armies ?
going to Peru post dissertation (OU so couple of weeks) so should be suitaly inspired

currently looking at painting up 24 or so suit wearers and 6 cuachic for the Aztecs, should make a solid start


Ben

Well the Aztecs seem to have used a lot of ambushes, flank marches and so on against contemporary opponents plus having more and better troops never hurts. Whether this translates to Fog or not we shall see.

Most meso-americans will have low initiative so will get to move first a lot. They're protected at best so each BG can be quite cheap. Many get plentiful LF so a screen of those plus double moving MF will make them fast armies. They'll be drilled so should be quite flexible. Types like the Aztecs will be able to get in a good impact against foot.

The javelin capability won't do that much against armoured chaps or big foot units but it might make skirmishers keep their distance a bit and small units of cavalry won't be able to muck about too much.

The problem will be melee in the open against decent mounted and 'proper' heavy foot.

[Caliph]

As interesting as all these posts about these southern softies are, I'm waiting to find out how my hard men from the North Eastern Coastal Forests are treated. Any hints?

Eastern Woodland - the bulk troop type are average MF undrilled bow* impact foot swordsmen. There are some veteren warriors who get to be superionr and these can be either MF or HF.

Excellent. As long as the bulk of the army is utter rubbish on the wargames table I will be happy. It's much more fun trying to win with useless troops.

[grahambriggs]

As interesting as all these posts about these southern softies are, I'm waiting to find out how my hard men from the North Eastern Coastal Forests are treated. Any hints?

Eastern Woodland - the bulk troop type are average MF undrilled bow* impact foot swordsmen. There are some veteren warriors who get to be superionr and these can be either MF or HF.

Excellent. As long as the bulk of the army is utter rubbish on the wargames table I will be happy. It's much more fun trying to win with useless troops.

I fear we may have served you badly in that respect, at least compared to other American lists. These guys would walk straight through the Olmecs or early Maya. Still they'll be a fun army I think and far from roadkill so should give you some enjoyable games.

[danikine74]

Do a failed death roll mean that that base will not be eliminated but eaten???

[philqw78]

I think the aztecs should suffer from having to take prisoners for sacrifice rather than just kill the enemy on the field. So for every base they kill their BG gets bigger by a base that doesn't fight, just attracts hits.

[Caliph]

I will be quite happy to play against anyone with my Eastern Woodland. I cannot remember ever even seeing another army from the America's so have struggled mightily, and enjoyed it, against lots of different army types. With other rules the most difficult to face have been Macedonian types but "in period" knights have been interesting opponents.

I shall look forward to the lists being published and perhaps use them @ Anderida.