Why no reverse?

[Acererak]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but...any gaming design reason existing not to have reverse gear in the vehicles?

I find it a bit silly and unrealistic to "offer" my mighty Panther´s "rear" to the enemy when i am just trying to improve my position after i found some nasty surprises ahead...

Could it be possible to implement in future patches if there is no major reason behind this?

Thanks!

[pipfromslitherine]

It does seem like a good idea - we didn't want to over-clutter the UI though. Perhaps we could make it a single tile move so that it's not up too much?

Cheers

Pip

[Acererak]

Single tile does not seem to be enough to me. Could not go back around corners, for example....definitely should cost a good bunch of APs (at least double, maybe triple) though as could be a major advantage specially for german units that have usually more units with better front armor in most scenarios.

Could also maybe have a highest probability of causing a Bogg down for example? I noticed that Tigers and Kingtigers usually have over the average malfunctions (which on the other hand is a very nice realistic touch and balances this units perfectly in my opinion)

[LOGAN5]

If you are face to face with a tank and you become suppressed, the best thing to do really is not move at all, because if you do you will give him another chance to kill you before his turn comes. Backing up would still be nice and at least when you are running you won't expose your rear armor to your enemy. We don't want people running around backwards the whole game, so 1 or 2 squares seems fair but I don't think it should be the same as regular movement.

[Amaz_Ed]

Maybe hunt moves could default to reverse if made towards the rear of the vehicle? That way you would only turn round if you really wanted to.

[pipfromslitherine]

I was thinking that you could choose to do multiple reverse moves, just that we wouldn't show it on anything other than the tile next to you, to prevent too many move options. It would cost considerably more than a normal move - maybe even more than double. Still need to talk through all the issues with Iain.

Cheers

Pip

[PirateJock_Wargamer]

Like the idea of reverse and 1 tile at a time. Am I right in thinking that AP cost for Hunt is 2X Fast? If so, while reverse should be AP-expensive, would you make it the same for Hunt and Fast? I think making Hunt reverse 2X Hunt forward would too restrictive and costly. Besides having reverse cost the same for either movement rate would make the coding easier; no having to check what the unit was doing going forward

[Acererak]

Bumping this back up a little bit so we get some new opinions and discuss about it a bit more.

In my opinion, the only important feature that we might be missing from this little masterpiece we have here. Pip pointed out some nice ideas about how to implement it in the game...

Any chance you guys might go for it in the near future?

[junk2drive]

WinSP handles it by costing more AP, and you only move so many hexes, 3 maybe?, IIRC. I wouldn't mind this as a way to back away from an assault.

[CharlyG]

I think it's a good idea to have this move available and I agree with Junk2, Move penality will be necessary for this one.

[CharlyG]

Any information about the use of the reverse maneuver in the future ?

[Novaliz]

Move backward would be definetly a very good option and in my opinion makes the game even better! Especialy in urban combat

I like Batlefield Academy very much because it plays like my favourite board-wargames like Tide of Iron or Conflict of Heroes. Also a better manual would be nice (a short explanation how the dice roll works; Panzer Command: Kharkov has a very good manual e.g. where they explain how the rules work in the background).

[junk2drive]

Merr was out of town for a while, I have done nothing, and no word from Iain or Pip.

[IainMcNeil]

Its on the wish list but no idea if/when it will happen.

[Ocean1]

A VERY limited back up would be good. I'm sure you guys thought of smoke and decided against it. At times I think it would be good, although I don't believe there was a lot of use of smoke in WWII.

[Merr]

A VERY limited back up would be good. I'm sure you guys thought of smoke and decided against it. At times I think it would be good, although I don't believe there was a lot of use of smoke in WWII.

I agree ... very limited but can occur (or be available) under certain conditons ...

Unit's morale value.
Threat's "chance-to-kill".
How far the unit "reverses" depends on the threats "chance-to-kill" and within LOS, (checked after each tile moved).
Breakdown and bogged chances increase inversely from the units morale, and tiles already moved. ie, lower morale = higher chance. Moving beyond 1 tile = higher chance.

Now, when you take all the conditonals above ... It ends up as a "tactical survival" manuever ... Lets talk other conditions ...

When the unit's on a HillTop ... or shall i say at the "crest" of the hill. Well, hills don't have a crest (at the moment), but if they did, a reverse move would be "abstract" and wouldn't actually move the unit one tile .... in this case, the reverse move would be something like an "attempt hidden status". Remember, if you are revealed after firing from a hill, you are revealed until the beginning of next turn ... reversing allows you to be hidden again, IMMEDIATELY.

Ok, now for the reality check ....
Anybody here drive a tank?.. not me.
Can anybody drive their car in reverse for a good distance without looking in their rear-view or side mirrors?

You need a "spotter" to signal the driver as to which way to go. The TC can be assumed to be the spotter, if he has good visibility (buttoned status).
I have a realworld example to post ... but my book is at work ... I'll post later ... It's a great example of what I've been talking about.

merr

EDIT : ... Smoke's possible ... I'm working on something that increases the unit's cover value, I can't make it block (for now).

[MesaDon]

Ok, now for the reality check ....
Anybody here drive a tank?.. not me.
Can anybody drive their car in reverse for a good distance without looking in their rear-view or side mirrors?

Back in my younger days .... maybe late 60s, was with a friend and he lost all forward gears only had reverse. Car was a junker (don't think he had a side mirror) and he looked over his shoulder and made it back home a distance of 2 to 3 miles at night. So I guess somehow a tank could go maybe one square backwards not the same but these guys are trained while my friend had drink a couple and feeling rather good.

[Merr]

Back in my younger days .... maybe late 60s, was with a friend and he lost all forward gears only had reverse. Car was a junker (don't think he had a side mirror) and he looked over his shoulder and made it back home a distance of 2 to 3 miles at night. So I guess somehow a tank could go maybe one square backwards not the same but these guys are trained while my friend had drink a couple and feeling rather good.

... Ok, let me rephrase that ... "safely" backing up

Your story reminds me ... add another conditional ... player soberness ...

Player breathes into sobriaty device ... if it reads .1 or greater, unit can backup to full AP

EDIT : ... I don't think tank drivers (WWII models) can "look over their shoulder" very well... hence, spotter required.

[MesaDon]

I guess they can always stick their heads out of the hatch and take a chance on getting it shot off then again some tanks had a cupola that allowed the commander to get if not a 360 view at least close to it. I guess you could give the back-up ability to these model tanks.

[junk2drive]

When I want to reverse is after that oh s*** moment when you move forward one too many and something fires at you and misses. If it is dangerous with no chance to kill whatever is shooting, I want to at least back up one and hope I am now out of range. If the movement triggers something to op-fire, I want the front facing it.