1-turn difference from a Victory type already has drastic changes on your prestige cap, your chances of free prototypes, your next scenario in that campaign, and so on...(add half a dozen other items here).Its all good though, although i am surprised how important this is to some to know exactly what is needed... ( not a criticism BTW just didnt realize)
26+ scenarios
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Experience Ratio = (def exp level + 2)/(att exp level + 2)
Entrenchment Ratio = (def entr rate + 1) /(att entr rate + 1)
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TheGrayMouser
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
- Posts: 5001
- Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:42 pm
Yeah, i am not questioning the rewards/ importance etc for missing a major by a turn or whatnot.Obsolete wrote:1-turn difference from a Victory type already has drastic changes on your prestige cap, your chances of free prototypes, your next scenario in that campaign, and so on...(add half a dozen other items here).Its all good though, although i am surprised how important this is to some to know exactly what is needed... ( not a criticism BTW just didnt realize)
Let me just give an example; I recall one game where I was near the end of the Moscow scenario. My depleted panzers (not at full strength, dangerously low on ammo and fuel) were right near the mega hex city of Moscow, remember that one?, where all the victory hexes are stocked with experianced Soviet engineers at entrenchment level 10 backed by artillery and flak ?) There was like 3-4 turns left.... All my leg infantry and tube artillery were some distance behind, what do i do ? Well i went for it and actually took the last objective hex on the second last turn (and lost some good units doing so) To my horror i didnt get a major victory and was kicked out of Russia to face the Amis in Tunisia....
Now, If i had known it would have been pointless to "go for it" because i would need to take the objective on the 3rd last turn, impossible, i simply would have spent the last three turns keeping my units intact, picking off weak enemy units to gain the experiance /prestige and frittered the last couple turns in boredom ..... Thats all I mean by the not knowing thingie, i found it made my games so much more edge of the seat... Alot harder and rewarding to make tough decisions where you never know if it is all in vain, until the dust settles .... Just my opinion on what I like in a game like this, there is never any right or wrong answers for these things.
No, I don't remember, but I've played so many PG variants it's hard to recall. If I saw a shot of the scenario I'm sure it would look familiar though. And as much as some fans my cringe, I've played more of that PoS PG3d & PGSE than the former two in the series.My depleted panzers (not at full strength, dangerously low on ammo and fuel) were right near the mega hex city of Moscow, remember that one?
When people realize they have missed their chance to gain the victory they wanted, this then becomes the optimal line of play. I wouldn't say it was boring though, since why then did you not manage to get the Brilliant Vic in the first place?... i simply would have spent the last three turns keeping my units intact, picking off weak enemy units to gain the experiance /prestige
Experience Ratio = (def exp level + 2)/(att exp level + 2)
Entrenchment Ratio = (def entr rate + 1) /(att entr rate + 1)
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TheGrayMouser
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
- Posts: 5001
- Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:42 pm
I hear ya, perhaps boring was not a good choice of words. I personally dislike knowing where i stand in a tactical game. For example HPS/talonsoft games. Early in game i think i am up against a tough battle, i am using every ounce of brain to maneuver and outfight the AI and then i decide to take a peek at the victory conditions box and find out i am winning a major victory... Darn... whats the point in continuing knowing i will maintain that major victory if all i have to do is maintain an equal loss ratio (easy to do vs the ai).... Kinda opposite perspective of what i was saying before but i think you know what I am getting at. In my Moscow example i was implying for me, maybe not others, if i know i cant get the major victrory because the game engine TELLS me its impossible, it will effect how i play out the rest of the scenario. Instead of agonizing over how to try or not to try the apparent impossible, i dont bother and conserve units for the next battle. (btw hope you didn takle the "rember moscow" battle as some kinda dig against you or anything, amazing how I cant remember my boss explaining a new lame protocal yesterday but I can recall a battle on a friggin PC game i played 10 years ago)Obsolete wrote:No, I don't remember, but I've played so many PG variants it's hard to recall. If I saw a shot of the scenario I'm sure it would look familiar though. And as much as some fans my cringe, I've played more of that PoS PG3d & PGSE than the former two in the series.My depleted panzers (not at full strength, dangerously low on ammo and fuel) were right near the mega hex city of Moscow, remember that one?
When people realize they have missed their chance to gain the victory they wanted, this then becomes the optimal line of play. I wouldn't say it was boring though, since why then did you not manage to get the Brilliant Vic in the first place?... i simply would have spent the last three turns keeping my units intact, picking off weak enemy units to gain the experiance /prestige
I enjoyed PG 2 for what it was and actually enjoyed Peoples General quite a bit .. i thought the way they handled airstrikes was interesting but they missed an opportunity to do it right ( imho they should have made airstrikes off map like they did but made them core units that could be lost or damaged like any other unit instead of the mission based points based nonsense like they did)
Never did try the 3d games, guess i was burnt out of Pg by that time lol.
BTW i like your avatar over at Matrix, great flick.
Now when is this game coming out !
I don't think it's that easy. Even when we THINK we are making good progress for the turn, there is much randomization with the battles, and other effects such as ambushes, unit spawning, etc. There are only a minimal amount of turns per scenario, and GENERALLY you are forced on the offensive, which means unknown and other (bad things) can happen.find out i am winning a major victory... Darn... whats the point in continuing knowing i will maintain that major victory if all i have to do is maintain an equal loss ratio (easy to do vs the ai).
If you do feel you are going to get a brilliant vic in the current scenario, then I'm not too sure why someone would feel there is no point in continuing
That's the golden opportunity everyone dreams about, barring the fact the losses could be too high, or they are trying to lose on PURPOSE to get to a weaker scenario next.The only real problem I see with how the vic situation is implemented, is one could capture the last victory hex with a 2-strength tank, and despite the other hexes surrounding it contain full strength elite anti-tank units of the enemy, the scenario suddenly ends right there. So... exactly why did the Russians sit by and let the Axis declare a victory without getting in their last counter-attack!?
However, we have to keep things simple, so we compromise. You have to draw the line somewhere.
Experience Ratio = (def exp level + 2)/(att exp level + 2)
Entrenchment Ratio = (def entr rate + 1) /(att entr rate + 1)
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TheGrayMouser
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
- Posts: 5001
- Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:42 pm
Hmm now i could be wrong but I thought the original PG actually allowed the Ai to counter attack even after you took the last V hex... I always though it was the later variants that the curtain would close once you did so hmmm
I like the idea of the ai getting at least a chance to boot you out, especially if flak gun or like your example, a 2 strength unit slips into a V hex commando style.
I like the idea of the ai getting at least a chance to boot you out, especially if flak gun or like your example, a 2 strength unit slips into a V hex commando style.
Like I said in another post, I dont have anything against a linear campaign, but, I would like a generator or something to improve replayability; replayability was the only weakness in the original PG. Games are way more expensive these days than in the 90's and todays wargamers often expect a little more. Its not criticism I am only providing my opinion since replayability is a big factor when I am considering buying a game (I buy far less than when I was younger:)