Poland and random seed frustration

[berndN]

I have played now Poland a couple of times. Poland is a good example as the axis forces are set at the beginning.
Depends on the random factor I have seen one city defended by AA or not. Or even worse bad weather and no plane combat possible
So in my view, just as a beginner to PG and PC, I might be able to have a decisive win or not. When the dices are very bad for me I can't even capture the last city near the fortified structure.

So why do I mourn about this? Because I like to forget to save at the beginning of turn 0/1 of the next scenario I once was able to start norwegian campaign but had spent my prestige points wrong and forgot to save
Same for the non decisive outcome where you are in the low lands

A restart option for a scenario/campaign would be on my favorite feature list
BUT as it is my fault I felt I just had to vent a bit. No game play killer. Just perplexed that some of you can manage these easy ones on the hardest level. I'm still using the default which is the middle entry.

Does completing the tutorials effects the start of a campaign?

[Tarrak]

Completing the tutorial does not directly affect the campaign but it gives you a good understanding of game mechanics, especially if you haven't played PG before. Plus the tutorial is quite enjoyable.

The randomness can always be a pain in the ass, especially when it comes to bad weather but so was it in real life too. Bloody rain and mud ruined any chance of a decisive victory in Moscow for me for example. Half of the time it was raining forcing my Luftwaffe to the ground and turning all ground to mud making units virtually crawl forward. But that's how it works.

As to difficulty level: Especially if you are a beginner and never played PG before the colonel difficulty level can be already quite hard. Hell i played a damn loads of PG before and still early in the campaign colonel is hard enough for me. Later it becomes a bit easier as PC, even if by far not as bad as PG, still causes you to stockpile prestige if you score a few decisive victories in a row and gets easier as you can afford to keep your equipment up to date and simply afford more of it. Basically if it proves to hard for you there is no shame in lowering it to Lieutenant (the downside is tho you can't change it in the middle of a campaign so you would have to restart), learning the tricks and then later trying it on harder setting again. I would not recommend sergeant tho as the -5 unit strength penalty for the AI makes the game so bloody trivial it's no fun anymore.

[berndN]

Really appreciate this. From a 'historical' view weather should be linked to 'historic' weather for a given campaign so no random weather as well as the computer AI should be started with a 'generic assumption' of the units which had fought but as I know this is more a game then a historic correct campaign so I will get used to it. And I have bought it as a game. So basically I need to get used to it. If I have to much problems I will switch to Lieutenant but thanks a lot for telling me that even you had some work to manage the early campaign.

[Rudankort]

Sergeant was supposed to be a level where everybody can win. I hope that we succeed in that.

[MesaDon]

Yep I am so glad that you have the Sergeant setting like it is. I am to rash to win most times even in the default. Placed it in Sergeant and even I can be a victor. Gives me the hope I need to kep on playing. Thanks for thinking of us tactically challenged people.

[berndN]

Yep I am so glad that you have the Sergeant setting like it is. I am to rash to win most times even in the default. Placed it in Sergeant and even I can be a victor. Gives me the hope I need to kep on playing. Thanks for thinking of us tactically challenged people.

Welcome and I'm glad that I'm not the only one
Played Poland again yesterday evening and was making good progress, at least I thought so, but then all of a sudden my units had been high casualties. Took all objectives with 16 of 17 turns but had suffered some real high losses which gave me a hard time for the low lands. Started it and while the first city in the south could be taken easily those super units in the south gave me some headache. Same for the cities in the south. Dished it and will restart in Poland until I learn the game mechanics

[VPaulus]

Dished it and will restart in Poland until I learn the game mechanics

You'll get it. And sooner than you think.
It's just a question of learning the game mechanics.

[PinkPanzer]

Yep I am so glad that you have the Sergeant setting like it is. I am to rash to win most times even in the default. Placed it in Sergeant and even I can be a victor. Gives me the hope I need to kep on playing. Thanks for thinking of us tactically challenged people.

Welcome and I'm glad that I'm not the only one
Played Poland again yesterday evening and was making good progress, at least I thought so, but then all of a sudden my units had been high casualties. Took all objectives with 16 of 17 turns but had suffered some real high losses which gave me a hard time for the low lands. Started it and while the first city in the south could be taken easily those super units in the south gave me some headache. Same for the cities in the south. Dished it and will restart in Poland until I learn the game mechanics

On default difficulty, try buying 2 sturmpanzers and a second 105 mm arty with truck in poland at the start. That leaves you with one more slot to buy a stuka asap.
That was good for a 10 turn decisive victory.

In PG and I assume PC is the same, the AI would earn prestige every turn for every city it controlled. So the faster you capture cities the more successful your positive feedback loop blitzkrieg will be.
Conversely if your slow capturing cities, the AI earns more presitge to buy more units which slows you down and you have to waste more prestige and time to repair your units which allows the AI to earn more prestige which creates a negative feedback loop and so on and so on and so on.

[PinkPanzer]

3 sturmpanzers bought on the first turn plus a stuka bought later on in poland did it in 9 turns.

[berndN]

Thanks a lot

Buying units was the right way instead of trying to refit the existing ones as this has worn out my prestige points to fast and slowed me down much to much. I decided to buy a Stuka and a fighter and a Sturmhaubitze and the additional airstrike had been great. Only that the weather often enough has crippled my air attacks

Would have not thought that the bought units will carry over but I see them now in the Norway Campaign. Saved it first now.

[Wings]

It's just a question of learning the game mechanics.

I sure hope not. I hope, like with chess, that it's more than just knowing the game mechanics when you reach a high playing level, whether you compete with the AI or a somewhat equally skilled player.

[berndN]

At the moment I can say how decent the AI is as I don't understand the game mechanics or better call it the rules. I have played chess and I know that you must know the chess game mechanics too. In chess you first have to learn how to move your units. Then you need to learn how to move and develop a strategy.

Moving in PC is easy. Much more then in chess. But I need to understand how the different unit types like infantry, artillery and tanks work together to have the outcome I had in mind. To often I checked the tiles and had nevertheless to big losses.

In Poland it was the idea to buy additional units which I have never checked and would not have checked without asking here. In the tutorials the have these deployment pre turn where I did buy stuff. In Poland there is no deploy so I thought that I have to use what I have. Maybe for a later one this will be a challenge

And important: I had tried Poland now a couple of times. Not from a save instead from a new game. So the seed had always been new so there are some minor/major changes in weather but also the AI have done some nice small little changes.

Until I do learn a little more about it maybe I will do some scenario related questions as soon as I notice that I have problems.

And if I wrote something which could be misinterpreted please keep in mind that english is not my native language

[PinkPanzer]

At the moment I can say how decent the AI is as I don't understand the game mechanics or better call it the rules. I have played chess and I know that you must know the chess game mechanics too. In chess you first have to learn how to move your units. Then you need to learn how to move and develop a strategy.

Moving in PC is easy. Much more then in chess. But I need to understand how the different unit types like infantry, artillery and tanks work together to have the outcome I had in mind. To often I checked the tiles and had nevertheless to big losses.

In Poland it was the idea to buy additional units which I have never checked and would not have checked without asking here. In the tutorials the have these deployment pre turn where I did buy stuff. In Poland there is no deploy so I thought that I have to use what I have. Maybe for a later one this will be a challenge

And important: I had tried Poland now a couple of times. Not from a save instead from a new game. So the seed had always been new so there are some minor/major changes in weather but also the AI have done some nice small little changes.

Until I do learn a little more about it maybe I will do some scenario related questions as soon as I notice that I have problems.

And if I wrote something which could be misinterpreted please keep in mind that english is not my native language

Applying combined arms theory to the game. The smallest tactical unit is a tank, an infantry and an artillery. A second tank or infantry can be added.
In situations where the enemy has air superiority an aa can be added to the tactical unit.
Artillery fires first to suppress. Tanks are best for attacking and defending in open terrain plus killing artillery. Infantry are best for attacking and defending in bad terrain.

You don't need to buy a second fighter in poland. The Me110 is a fighter bomber.
It's better to cripple the polish air units than kill them. That way the AI will fly them to an airfield and waste prestige repairing them. Which means less ground units to fight.

You can actually have more units in your core than deployment slots in a scenario. Which gives you some tactical flexibility.

My advice is to replay the tutorial campaign scenarios on default difficulty over and over until you capture all cities and still get decisive victories. And experiment with different ratios of art, inf and tanks too

[berndN]

Thanks PinkPanzer, I just did as you told me and replayed the tutorials. With your tips and some testing I was able to have decisive wins. Will try it again just to be sure that I have learned my lessons and will then try the first campaign.

Looking forward. There was a reference to chess but I would say it's more like the chess exercises where you have to finish the chess game with limited amount of turns, which are sometimes found in news papers. Only difference is that there's a lot more random moves in it

[PinkPanzer]

Your welcome berndN.

The game reminds me of a game called rock, paper, scissors.
Every unit has strengths and every unit has weaknesses. The point is to mask the collective weaknesses of your core units into a combined arms symphony.


In real life, just considering tanks, arty and infantry, The ideal way to kill tanks is to attack them with arty and infantry when the tanks are in woods or a city. Then attack them from the flank or rear with your own tanks.

The naval battle in Norway is kind of like chess. ie pawns to be sacrificed. I recommend buying a Ju88 strat bomber.