decisive victory and prestige

[gchristie]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of winning a decisive victory? I'm new to the game and playing on Colonel level. From what I read here, decisive victory opens up other paths in the campaign, yes? But is it true that a marginal victory awards you a bonus in prestige points (I saw the amount of 500 in another post) wherease a decisive victory does not? Seems like it should be the other way around.

If the prestige you have when you win the decisive victory is carried over to the next scenario it wouldn't make much difference to play to a marginal victory in order to upgrade/reinforce/overstrength your units, or does it?

Anyone, can someone please explain benefits of winning decisive victories in the 1939 campaign.

Regards.

[Horseman]

The only scenario im aware of that awards more prestige for a marginal victory is Norway...

Other than that its more (or the same) for a decisive but obviously what you get can also determine the campaign path

[Xerkis]

First off – welcome to the game.

It depends on the scenario. Some give more for marginal (Poland, Norway), but most give you less prestige.
The prestige points do carry over to the next scenario too.

[gchristie]

Thanks for the quick answer.

I've seen in other forums a sticky that lists things that aren't in the manual. I'd find that useful for this forum and wonder what other's think?

[Molve]

But is it true that a marginal victory awards you a bonus in prestige points (I saw the amount of 500 in another post) wherease a decisive victory does not? Seems like it should be the other way around.

To paraphrase an answer given several times before:

Giving out more prestige to a DV does sound intuitive, but is often not the best design decision.

Sometimes the player that is only getting a marginal victory is the one in need of the most help. Conversely, if you gain a Decisive Victory, you're already doing pretty fine on your own.

Rewarding success with even higher prestige awards can often quickly unbalance a campaign - making it too easy for the skilled player, too hard for the struggling one.

[Magro]

The main thingh is by decisive victory you might get another scenario next (or not).

[ThorHa]

From a pure prestige point of view a MV is often preferable. Even if you get slightly less prestige as a reward, you have much lower losses to recover as you can simply stop advancing and/or concentrate forces better and/or receive scripted counterattacks in better terrain etc.

I habve to admit though that I only followed this advice one time as of now - in the last scenario dlc 42 called Tatsinskaya, as you can go in a defensive eagle position at around turn 9 and simply weather the 2 last pretty strong red attack waves under good air cover. This scenario actually is much harder than the first 5 dlc 43 scenarios as the T34/43 at 3 star experience is about equal to the PzIV G you will have as your strongest unit, plus the Russian fighters often have 3 stars experience as well. Thus the losses for this specific scenario can be pretty high (in DVs actually were higher than those in the Stalingrad scenarios).

Regards,
Thorsten

[antoniocapo]

Its a good idea to always consult the campaign tree flowchart to see if you get an extra scenario for winning a DV. If not, then you can play way more safe by advancing slowly even if it means a Marginal Victory instead.

That being said, im such a fool for glory and always try for the decisive no matter what.

General Castrillon: Our twelve pound cannon arrives tomorrow. Why sacrifice our soldiers trying to take a wall that can be demolished?

Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana: General Castrillon, what are the lives of soldiers but so many chickens? Without blood, without tears, there's no glory.

[XDopar]

From a pure prestige point of view a MV is often preferable. Even if you get slightly less prestige as a reward, you have much lower losses to recover as you can simply stop advancing and/or concentrate forces better and/or receive scripted counterattacks in better terrain etc.

I habve to admit though that I only followed this advice one time as of now - in the last scenario dlc 42 called Tatsinskaya, as you can go in a defensive eagle position at around turn 9 and simply weather the 2 last pretty strong red attack waves under good air cover. This scenario actually is much harder than the first 5 dlc 43 scenarios as the T34/43 at 3 star experience is about equal to the PzIV G you will have as your strongest unit, plus the Russian fighters often have 3 stars experience as well. Thus the losses for this specific scenario can be pretty high (in DVs actually were higher than those in the Stalingrad scenarios).

Regards,
Thorsten

I'm having a crazy hard time in Tatsinskaya. I can MV it, but I get clobbered in the process and don't want to move on with a decimated core force. One thing that bugs me about playing the AI is that fighter waves come out of nowhere. Divisions that aren't on the map suddenly appear and hammer any wayward tac or start bombers. As a result, I'm scared to death to advance with anything but fighters in Tatsinskaya.

[captainjack]

I played Tatsinskaya recently - it is a horror even when aiming for MV. It doesn't get any easier if the general (who me?) ends up placing Rudel and a Strat bomber plus one single fighter and a 7/1. I probably should have redeployed with three or four fighters or my two experienced 88s, and instead brought in some extra fighters as my recon unit and the Sherman (well, it's got good SA and CD3 they sometimes work against suppressed conscripts) disappeared under angry Russian hordes. On the plus side, I had enough ground units to clear the top and bottom of the map and gradually close in on the flanks of the central area. I never did find any trace of the Romanians who were supposed to be in the airfields....

[El_Jairo]

I must say that I also advocate to reward DV more in Prestige or maybe a bonus in XP on the units. Not that I don't understand why people need some help in campaign but you can change difficulty between scenario's.
A part of my motivation to perform better is because I get a reward. In the vanilla campaign I found myself skipping turns before taking a vicotry hex, just becaused I gained more prestige this way. In the end you move your troops away so that the AI can spawn new units that can provide more practise (and thus more XP) for your own units. That feels a little off. You should get rewarded for out performing (or not punished if your country is losing the war). The difficulty is what determines the challenge. Soft Cap Prestige can be explained by higher upkeep for more elite units.

[ThorHa]

Tatsinskaya is not too hard if you know what you do.

There are basically 2 ways to win this one easily:

1) Position your troops in the center backwards, lure or press the enemy tanks in the woods and overwhelm them with infantry.

2) Position your troops in the center as forward as possible, with at least 2 mobile artillery leading. Your first turn should end with troops positioned in a kind of triangle, the arrow being the center city still in allies hands, with the artillery at least covering the most forward units.

For the outer cities the setup is most basic: One towed artillery in the city center, tanks, AT and infantry in the respective most favorable terrain in a half circle front east around the city, with a few spare units in the vicinity for the south single city.

For 2), my favorite, add some AA including the allies AA surviving (at least the most western airfield should have a fully intact 20mm quadruple alive if you save it into armour cover in your first turn) for the protection of the precious artillery. And try, if possible, to include 2 K17 towed arty in the center - these are very effective against armour while still effective against infantry as well.

Weather the first Russian attack, destroy or more preferable force surrenders the first turns, only attack after suppression or only severely weakened units, use your air only defensively OR if sure to be out of reach of enemy AA. At around turns 5 to 7 start counterattack, sack all remaining airfields and the other center city, then either go into hedgehog formation for a MV OR enforce a DV. 2 major Russian counterattacks, one arriving at around turn 9 to 10 center and center-north, the other one appr. 3 rounds before turn limit either center southeast or in the bottom right quarter depending wether you advance for a DV or you "hedgehog".

IF you are very good and very fast the last counterattack never happens if you manage to capture the last VH in the southwest corner with a force arriving strictly from southwest before the last 3 turns.

Regards,
Thorsten

[SSLConf_hanjar]

Thorsten, how to survive T-34 and KV-1 attacks? I use Panzer IV G and Stugs, but they are inferior. I tried your tactics number 2, but most of my units are turned into grindmeat after only 3-4 turns. These Stalingrad scenarios are really frustrating me...

[Scholomancer]

I personally put tanks in the tree lines to the south and the hills north of the airfields as anchors and used my best tank killers in the clear space around the airfields, with everything backed by artillery and fighters. I brought the aux Tiger you get as a KV hunterkiller to the clear space asap, and I had picked up a number of the captured Russian KV types as well along the way and used them to hold the centre line as well.

Captured Units Thread: (Make it a favourite)
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=39382

In the south where it is more mobile I use my Ju-87s as my tank killers, and in the north I used 2-3 tanks in front of the tree line to break up the Russian Lend-Lease tank advance, and infantry backed by artillery to pick off tanks one by one as they tried to slip by my own tanks and entered the tree hexes. Once the northern and southern attacks were destroyed I brought them into the center as pincers, where they could get into the Russian backfield and clear out the artillery and AA.

After that I reorganized for the next attack, and moved forward until I could see the defences of the NE and SE victory hexes. I usually set up a defensive position when I see the Turn 10 hex come in, but like ThorHa said, you can usually get the SE victory hex and set up a defensive position before the third wave triggers.