Being burst through by light foot

Caledonian · Post by **Caledonian** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:27 pm

If a BG is burst through by friendly light foot who are routing does that BG drop a level.
I have always played that it does not but my opponent disagreed.
He pointed out two relevant sections of the rules:
Pg 48 "A battle group burst through by friendly evaders or routers drops one cohesion level"
and
Pg 67 "...battle groups passed through by evaders who can normally interpenetrate them do not count as burst through"
As he pointed out, pg 67 makes no mention of routers.
Who is correct

Thanks

John

Robert241167 · Post by **Robert241167** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:30 pm

You are correct John

Basically any troops who could interpenetrate also do when routing so no drop in cohesion level.

Rob

Caledonian · Post by **Caledonian** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:45 pm

I thought so too but could find nothing in the rules to support this

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:20 pm

Light troops can pass through everything (I think, without looking it up) see the interpenetration section.

Legitimate interpenetration is not a burst through. The rules on bursting through are about non-legal interpenetrations. I.e no burst thorough, no cohesion drop.

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:49 pm

In fairness to your opponent, if the RAW states it as you have quoted then I think he's right, but not intended to be that way. If the RAW doesn't specify 'routers' (as routers aren't evaders) then a wording change is needed.

I've always played it that they interpenetrate, and this includes heavier interpenetrations like (I think) NKE bows & swordsmen.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:41 am

I believe it is adequately covered by the rules as written.

See Page 108 - 2nd bullet. 'adjust as per evade moves'

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:53 am

rogerg wrote:Light troops can pass through everything (I think, without looking it up) see the interpenetration section.

Legitimate interpenetration is not a burst through. The rules on bursting through are about non-legal interpenetrations. I.e no burst thorough, no cohesion drop.

Light Infantry can, Light Horse can't.

Caledonian · Post by **Caledonian** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:01 am

I believe it is adequately covered by the rules as written.

See Page 108 - 2nd bullet. 'adjust as per evade moves'

I pointed this bit out to him but he was not convinced that "adjusting the movement" would allow the routers to interpenetrate without disrupting the BG being interpenetrated. To be honest I was not convinced by this argument myself. It is the fact that pg67 is quite specific in mentioning only evaders and not routers.

John

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:11 am

I guess it's one of those things that we've been used to playing for years now and it's never been an issue.

The sentence reads - "......adjust as per evade moves to get past these."

And then on Page 67 - It interpenetrates friends if allowed to do so.

And this is reinforced on Page 48 "In various circumstances, battle groups may be forced to burst through other battle groups that they cannot normally interpenetrate. The bold is mine to emphasise the point.

But if your opponent won't have it I'm not sure what else to suggest - sorry.

Caledonian · Post by **Caledonian** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 am

I think that Ravenflight has the answer

Pg 67 - Re the evaders " it interpenetrates friends if allowed to do so"

Then in the second column on pg 67 - " If the above would not allow all front rank bases to complete their evade move the BG must instead burst through...."

Thus if it can legitimately interpenetrate it does not count as bursting through so does not disrupt

Thanks to all who replied

John

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:25 am

petedalby wrote:I guess it's one of those things that we've been used to playing for years now and it's never been an issue.

The sentence reads - "......adjust as per evade moves to get past these."

And then on Page 67 - It interpenetrates friends if allowed to do so.

And this is reinforced on Page 48 "In various circumstances, battle groups may be forced to burst through other battle groups that they cannot normally interpenetrate. The bold is mine to emphasise the point.

But if your opponent won't have it I'm not sure what else to suggest - sorry.

I think part of the problem here is that interpenetrations are defined as "Interpenetrations are situations where you can choose to move through friendly troops and where there is no penalty for doing so.". And the other way of moving through is a burst through.

Routing is clearly a situation where you get no choice. So it reads as if it is a burst through. Evading may also be a 'no choice' option (i.e. a failed test to stand by skirmishers).

In evading it says "It interpenetrates friends if allowed to do so". You could make the case that it can only interpenetrate if it had a choice. So evading cavalry can interpenetrate, routers and skirmishers who failed a test to stand can't.

The wording is poor, however everyone (including the authors) plays it that routing LF interpenetrate but don't burst through.