Favourite tank / anti-tank?

gokkel · Post by **gokkel** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:19 pm

Finding now finally some time, I tried the regular campaign again on Field Marshall difficulty (or whatever the 5th difficulty was named). In my first finished campagin on third difficulty level I used as tanks only Panthers and as anti-tank later few Jagdpanther, but I wasn't too happy with them especially in the USA missions. So this time I tried the Tiger tanks instead and found they did much better, since they were able to take some shots in. I later also got some Tiger II tanks, but those were without experience and so they did often worse than my leveled Tiger I tanks. I also bought as Anti-Tank some Elefant tanks, which did also surprisingly well.

However, my campaign isn't going as I wished. I had here and there only some marginal victories, so I ended up at the mission Overlord instead of in the USA which wasn't too hard, but then Lake Balaton was really nuts. It is not like I couldn't deal with the huge tank army, although they were quite scary, it is just that I needed so long to beat them up that a decisive victory was out of question, but then I ended up even losing that mission because I missed the last victory point by just one turn. The russian tanks were so strongly armored that my Tigers often could barely scratch them, which made me question again my choice to go for Tigers, and also open this thread.

Which tank / anti-tank model do you prefer to use in late game? Do you use also tactical bombers to deal with tanks in later game? This time I didn't have any tactical bombers besides two hybrid fighter / bombers which obviously couldn't do too much harm to late game tanks.

MartyWard · Post by **MartyWard** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:30 pm

If I have my druthers I use Tiger II's on the JS tanks and Panthers on everything except JS units

I find that later in the war the TAC's are not uiseful against a lot of the armour but still can dish it out to infantry and artillery. I usually switch them to FB's that have some ground attack capability and can finish off enemy planes in order to let my fighter to take on the full strength air units.

dan_hnnng · Post by **dan_hnnng** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:35 pm

Tigers for me.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:58 pm

KV-85.

Oh wait, this is about German armor. Pshh.

In the late game, the Jagdpanther is really impressive. Mobile, well armed and armored, decent staying power(ammo total), and 2/3 the price of the King Tiger. Jagdpanther in combination with the Stuka G is a lot of anti-tank firepower, but they work best when they have at least 1 or 2 stars on them. Brand new and no experience units do tend to struggle in the late war.

WhiteRook · Post by **WhiteRook** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:57 pm

Tigers and Panthers for me, unlike a lot of armchair generals here I actually do like the differant mobile AT guns, I was really shocked the first time I had good success with them aginst T-34's. Some times I worry about the A.I. - as it has of late really started gunning for my mobile AT guns, and I mean ruthlessly!

billmv44 · Post by **billmv44** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:11 pm

King Tigers as much as my prestige will allow. If I have an AT, then the JagdPanther of course. The Panthers just can't handle the JS tanks (unless they are behind a river).

Schneides42 · Post by **Schneides42** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:22 am

If you are allowing anti-tank units, I really like the power of the 88s, especially in the early years. Or does it have to be self-propelled

dragos · Post by **dragos** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:50 am

In US mainland scenarios I have found that the only green anti-tank unit that can survive and inflict damage is JagdTiger. JagdPanthers low ground defense means they are thrashed by 3-star US tanks. As for tanks, inexperienced Panthers and Tiger I are in trouble as well. If they have 2-3 stars, both Panthers and TigerI can do well. I only upgrade to Tiger II if they have an hero with +1 movement.

flakfernrohr · Post by **flakfernrohr** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:43 am

I love Tiger I's very much. I also like Tiger II's, but less so in general purpose situations and usually in defensive or short run offensive battles and scenarios. If you are in the RUSH FOR MOSCOW or making rapid thrusts, Panthers are the best tank hands down for many reasons, not just fuel and ammo, but mobility and range. They are undergunned in terms of killing power by the game in my opinion. But you can tweak them realistically. I like to use the Tigers and Panthers like light cavalry and dragoons. The light cavalry is a Panther and the Dragoon that comes in with the heavy hitting is the Tiger. Any armor that is inexperienced is in for a hard time.

I also like the Stug IIIG and the PanzerJager IV L70 series armor. They too are also undergunned in the game I think. I can tweak "realistically" just a bit on the Panthers and the Panzer Jagers and Stugs and get them to historial wartime capacity. The Stug is really under rated in the game badly. It was a real tank killer even late in the war. Suffice it to say the 75mm German gun is way under gunned in the game in my opinion, especially in the L/70 series and Pak 75. The only realistic static AT gun in the game as it is originally written is the PAK 43 88mm.

gokkel · Post by **gokkel** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:48 am

Schneides42 wrote:If you are allowing anti-tank units, I really like the power of the 88s, especially in the early years. Or does it have to be self-propelled

Heh, well, I tried the 88 out a few times in the more early scenarios. It does there quite well, but it is difficult to get it into position and getting it to attack the tanks, so in general I am favouring self-propelled stuff again. Also those self-propelled anti-air units I used this time to defend my self-propelled artillery since they are very vulnerable to enemy air units, especially before you can upgrade your Sturmpanzer units to Sig 38(t). I could also afford getting less Fighters myself that way (well, until mission Overlord, where there were suddenly huge amounts of air units

).

Thanks for the tips so far. Yeah, about the Jagdtiger I thought already as well, but I kept taking the Elefant instead since it has higher attack value (if I remember right) while still having solid defense and a bit more fuel. But since I was not in the USA, I don't know how they would do there, maybe the Jagdtiger would be better. The bit lower attack value might be actually easily evened out by the higher defense value, since you can keep attacking with higher strength for more turns instead of backdrawing and reinforcing.

On the other hand the Jagdtiger becomes available only very late.

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:45 pm

Panther & Jagdpanther = cheap, speedy, superb anti-armor.
I will see in the 1943 DLC how StuGs and cheaper Jagdpanzers work. In the default campaign StuGs were notably absent due to the dates of the scenarios and progression of the campaign. The DLCs do them more justice IMO. Same for the Panzer IV who is probably going to stay for a while, except for some people who always seem to have 20.000 more Prestige than me!

The "Panther" problem is a lack of soft attack. Can't compare to the Tiger. Especially true for the Jagdpanther, and that's in a time where Infantry gets proper hard attack values. The new artillery StuGs like the StuG IIIB or even better the StuH42 might be perfect companions. Have not tested the combo yet.

In the USA part of the default campaign I wished I would have taken King Tigers: Not even the Panthers could dominate the experience late-war US tanks.
So yeah, I wished I would have had the slow and fuel guzzling King Tiger / II. (Interesting: While the Tiger I is 1 hex faster, the tank is only good enough for 6 full movement turns, the Tiger II can go 10 rounds at its slow max speed of 4. 32 vs 43 fuel.)

bebro · Post by **bebro** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:14 pm

Tiger I/II with movement heroes, then Panthers.

impar · Post by **impar** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:17 pm

The Panzerkampfdinosaurier I-B:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/25/move- ... g-through/

Or the PzIVD, for some reason, I really like it.

dragos · Post by **dragos** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:16 pm

impar wrote:Or the PzIVD, for some reason, I really like it.

Short-barreled Panzer IV is my favorite German tank too. But in PzC it seems very vulnerable. In Panzer General it crushed infantry in the open.

Here is my scale model of a Panzer IV D

deducter · Post by **deducter** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:24 am

PzIVD, with experience, destroys infantry in the open. If in doubt, one round of artillery bombardment will allow your PzIV to crush any soft target. An experienced, overstrengthed PzIVF dominates all infantry in the open without artillery bombardment.

Despite having no time to play SP, much less MP these days, I agree with Kerensky that the Jagdpanther is my favorite German armored unit, no question. Perfect combination of speed, armor, and awesome firepower. It is fairly expensive, and not useful against infantry, but it can stand up to any Allied armor in the game.

However, if prestige is tight, the StuG IV and the StuG III AT series are awesome. Very cheap, decent armor and attack, useful against most targets. I suspect they will play a bigger role in DLC 1942 and beyond, and may prove much more useful than the Panzers against those hordes of Russian T-34s.

King Tigers are great and nigh-invincible in the open. Just don't expect them to do much without proper backup in the form of infantry and artillery. Tragic are the King Tigers that get themselves trapped between two conscripts...