Feedback on Oil Consumption

[BenWH]

I have played a couple of games with the axis on hard and moderate, and in both cases, using pretty much just starting mechanised forces and some extra subs, I was out of oil by end 41 (even with Mosul and Makon captured). Am I the only one with this problem? It also seems too early to be running out of oil, particularly as I had built mostly non mechanised forces in order to last a bit longer. I have solved my problems by seizing nearly all the oil rigs on the map (including Ahwaz), but question whether the Germans should be in such dire straits from oil so early on.

My reco would be to decrease oil consumption per unit by 1 - you'll still start running out when the tanks and bombers upgrade, which currently are not even a possibility.

[BenWH]

Sorry - this should have been in the general forum, but I'd appreciate a reply anyway!

[vypuero]

conserve oil - dont move oil units unless absolutely necessary, rail them instead.

[BenWH]

I do conserve oil, but even with just the starting units, you can't conduct the war in a similar fashion to Germany without running out by the end of '41, which seems too early.

[vypuero]

I never, ever run out that early, so I am not sure what you are doing. Maybe you are buying too many oil using units? I have played at hardest level and don't get low on oil until say 43.

[blitz52]

I`ve had the same issue as Benwh, I ran out of oil by august 41`! and I`m still in the early phases of Barbarossa..

Allies with a moderate advantage.

steve

[stalins_organ]

I ran out of oil in mid-42 playing against the allies with max Allied advantage, but that game made me a lot more careful with builds and movement, and I'm currently in at the same stage in another game with 150 or so oil left and let the Sov's declare war.

[BenWH]

Actually, the point I was making was not whether it can be done (it can - I do it by capturing all the oil fields on the map), but whether it's a realistic/reasonable basis, as it does force a fairly standard set of tactics on the Axis player. I'd like to see the real pain from oil consumption kick in a little later, otherwise subs and aircraft remain grounded, and mechanized units get left in reserve, which is a bit more strict than happened in reality.

[firepowerjohan]

Running out of oil stores and running out of oil production is not same thing. Since you have some oil production you can each turn move a few oil units so it is not like everything stops...

[uk4caster]

I take all the points about oil conservation etc which I think are quite valid to stop an unrealistic Nazi fantasy if they don't capture oilfields. The problem seems to be that they are just as handicapped even if the take everything on the board (I'm not sure how anyone did that since for me the shortages are death). I'm not sure the Axis can build and operate a powerful enough military to capture them all, in other words a real catch 22. Perhaps that was intended, certainly is a challenge!)- my problem is knowing whether oilfields I have captured are actually increasing my supply - it doesn't look like it. Same sort of thing happened to me on normal difficulty - managed to capture all UK except Scapa (is that possible since you cannot invade?) I would say I cannot see that what I had was excessive in terms of a realistic possibility of winning - I think 5 German armour and 1 Italian quite a few motorized not sure how many ? another 4? about 3 TAC 3 F and 1 STRAT bomber in the air. 5 subs but nothing else naval built. In mid 1942 I was out of supplies just when I needed them to fend off the USSR. I managed to survive a while with my armour air and subs essentially frozen which was a pain since my subs had practically cleared the Atlantic of convoys:) I captured (with great difficulty because of the v slow movement rates) the Iraq and Iran oil but my production seemed unchanged. Is there some requirement of line of communications / supply back to home with oil for it to count (I think I had one anyway). Surely the Allies should also have some oil constraints? Looks like the Soviets might? but US UK seem to always have 999 supply! My understanding is that most of the UK's oil came from the middle east - so if the Germans capture that or just the suez & red sea routes UK should suffer a loss. It gives the impression that the on map oil resources are a tiny fraction of world production but at the time I would have thought that except for the US this was about it! In the Pacific the Japanese captured the oil in 1942 as well from the Dutch East Indies etc.

I am not saying the game is wrong just that I would like to know how it works it out because it feels wrong!

[vypuero]

Uk would have shipped most of its oil from the USA. The Middle East Oil supplied the med fleet and forces there, and most of Iran went to Russia. USA made 50% of all the world's oil during WW II, maybe more.

I am not sure what people are doing with their oil, I don't usually have this much of an issue until later in game.

[syagrius]

It takes forever to take the oil fields in Iraq and Iran with the Italians, and the Caucasus fields are very far away! So, when out of oil(around 1942) if I try to rely on my infantry to do the bulk of the fight because my armored corps are stranded, I use up my manpower!! Playing without oil limitation as the Axis is very different game.

In my current game, in May 1944, I managed to take all the oil fields however my manpower is around 35! By the time your infantry take the oil fields the Axis loose his momentum and the Russians are able to recover.

[stalins_organ]

The US supplied most of Spain's oil - so when Hitler wanted Spain to join the war it was one of Franco's main concerns & he asked Hitler for all of Spains oil needs (among other things) as he thought the US would stop sending it.

Needless to say Hitler couldn't supply Spain's requirements!! Which was probably known to Franco & therefore gave him and the easy out he wanted, but it was also a quite reasonable request given the situation at het time.

[Axisgeneral]

I just played my 1st TCP/IP game with OIL and I must say it adds lots of realism. I think the key for the Axis is to never move tanks unless attacking and must always use railroads to move them otherwise. After the Battle of France it must not use more oil than it produces until the Battle of Russia and stockpile it to a number 500+.

I do think Germany's oil supply should be increased (by 6-8) due to its advancements in Synthetic Oil so it can support more than 3-4 tanks. In the meantime I just adapt to this and buy tons of Corp Infantry and pour research into Anti Tank to make up for the lack of tanks.

An idea would be to add Synthetic Oil/Coal to Industry research to increase its output. Perhaps an increase of +3,+4,+3,+3,+3,+3 for the level tree?

Any thoughts or plans to maybe add this to a future patch?

[uk4caster]

My question again is how do you know that you are receiving captured oil - how much do you get - the rating next to the well? My production never seems to increase when I capture it. Is their some requirement for a supply link back to Germany or Italy from the Mid East / Caucasus? Also the British oil supply should respond to losses in the mid east and convoys.

[vypuero]

You get 50% of the oil and PP value, which means that:

Oil x 50% x War Effort % x3
PP x 50% x War Effort %

No link required. So if you control Mosul (4), you would get:

2 PP at 100% war effort
6 Oil at 100% war effort

I DID account for Synthetic Oil in the off-map oil supply for Germany. However, in my mod I have:

1) Lowered off-map and added synthetic (3) and crude (1) oil for Germany
2) Made Iraq a neutral conquered nation - conquered by UK. This means that, in the same way Libya, Egypt, Syria, and the Baltic States, you get 100% of their value if conquered. This is because they start the game neutral/comquered, otherwise if you make a DoW on a neutral they join the other side.

[VonManteuffel]

I think oil consumption in CEAW is set up pretty well. If someone wants to run all over the map with German panzers, they can turn oil off.