Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

[david53]

If this is really a labor of love that is no longer commercially viable, release it onto the internet and go open source. That IMO is the future of something like this. Set-up a committee to oversee things and just make it free/donation-ware.

Right now, this is going to be something that Slitherine payed to develop that won't be played or purchased.

Its not been stated why was this not talked about at the begining of the Beta Test maybe because then the hundreds of people that worked this V2 out would'nt have wasted their time for a system they can't now use.

[jdm]

We will accept a loyalty bonus at any time you care to send it:-)

[thefrenchjester]

We will accept a loyalty bonus at any time you care to send it:-)

ROTFLOL:-)

thefrenchjester " ready to share the loyalty bonus sent "

[list_lurker]

We will accept a loyalty bonus at any time you care to send it:-)

Strangely, having bought all the hard copy rules and lists I would have thought that I'd be a customer you want to keep

[zoltan]

Its not been stated why was this not talked about at the begining of the Beta Test maybe because then the hundreds of people that worked this V2 out would'nt have wasted their time for a system they can't now use.

This is a good point. If Slitherine had said at the outset, or indeed part way through the Beta testing phase, that v2 would be released digital only, how many people would haved signed up/continued to test? Did Slitherine have a duty of care to disclose this? Or is it beta testing the 'digital only' change through this open forum?

[bahdahbum]

and if you do not have IPAD you may not play ?

[Jilu]

Its not been stated why was this not talked about at the begining of the Beta Test maybe because then the hundreds of people that worked this V2 out would'nt have wasted their time for a system they can't now use.

This is a good point. If Slitherine had said at the outset, or indeed part way through the Beta testing phase, that v2 would be released digital only, how many people would haved signed up/continued to test? Did Slitherine have a duty of care to disclose this? Or is ir beta testing the 'digital only' change through this open forum?

3?

[Jilu]

and if you do not have IPAD you may not play ?

ohh but"everyone has an ipad"!

yes everyone working in the tech world.....everyone who has one for his job,...everyone who earns enough to be able to buy one....or has other uses for a tablet than FOG.

me? nope, i have no use for that thing, i saw it, have one a work(!) (it stays at work, i do not bring it home), for the rest i read real paper books, make photos with my camera or phone, listen to music with my ipod, look at Tv on my flatscreen, and when i want to use a computer i have a laptop,each has its use, and well i choose these when i am in the mood to use them or when i need them. and a tablet? why ? these are made to read content, and i realy do not need that in my life now. and for sure not to push miniatures on a tabletop.

are they scrared about piracy? well we all know that we can find the army lists of V1 to download, and yet ..i bought all the V1 armylists.
if is see anyone using a copy version of a rule or armylists in a tournament i would cry out faul and refuse to play, because i respect the writers, and knowing the wargaming world, i think most would do the same.

[Jilu]

Hi All
Firstly I would just like to thank you all for the feedback and comments on the forum, we do listen and its entirely appropriate to comment here, it’s what the forum is for, but I have to say there is a significant amount of misinformation, assumptions, rumor and incorrect comments about our intentions and the various platforms that we have been working on to upgrade the Tabletop FOG experience. So I will try and explain

Firstly, we are committed to FOG Tabletop rules, if this were not our intention we would simply announce as Games Workshop have done that they no longer support ancient wargames rules and they will no longer sell these. It’s as easy as that.

It’s worth revisiting what causes all of this and why we feel change in the process is necessary. We have listened to the frequent and numerous suggestions for rules changes and upgrades, we are pretty experienced in Tabletop wargaming so this is no surprise to us. No Rule set has ever been tested to the level of FOG ancients, yet after 3+ years of playing there is now a vast treasure trove of further improvements that can be made. It’s the very nature of Tabletop gaming and we more than most understand this. The dilemma is therefore not how to kill off FOG, but how to support it and we are talking the economics of Tabletop not video games here, so we have to be realistic. In the last analysis and despite our love of Tabletop this is our business.

When we looked at how we might best support the rules going forwards it became apparent that the traditional paper book method works really well for an initial release and we are fully committed to this, as I think is demonstrated by the launch of our new Napoleonic rule set, but how to support these rules going forwards is the big challenge. No one else has managed to solve this issue and remember our motivation is not connected to selling miniatures. For us this is a standalone product, so the economics have to be realistic. Warehousing, Printing, distribution and retail all add cost and so far as traditional book publishing goes you don’t need me to comment on the transitions that are taking place there. It’s hard enough to find outlets to sell the original books these days and wargames rules depend on iterations to survive, so a second version of the same product is for some hard to understand or sell.

So when agonizing over how best to support our “baby” we looked at a number of platforms and please bear in mind that each platform (e.g. ipad) has to be paid for and coded from scratch and then supported going forwards. Now if we were dealing with “Call of Duty” the economics of multiple platforms makes sense but we are not, so choices have to be made and I have to say that the touch screen, scrolling and indexing capabilities of the ipad are really suited to supporting players during games. The ability to instantly find a topic is second to none and enhances the whole game playing experience, but at present you only have my word for that and I fully understand the jury is still out. We also decided to add PC and MAC to the list of supported platforms as just about everyone on the planet now has access to these. So when one considers the cost of an army and the years of reuse in both an army and a rules set, is a potential one of cost to enhance the hours spent gaming really such a negative factor?

So where are we now? At present we are waiting on Apple approval to launch the ipad, normally no more than a couple of weeks. PC and MAC should also be ready by that time and all will be released simultaneously; at least that is our current plan.

However, we have also listened to what you have said and we are now investigating as quickly as we can a method of providing access to a “paper” version as well. We are committed to finding a solution to this and there are various alternatives that we are looking into to assess cost and time scales. We will advise further on this when we have the various responses to hand, but it is likely this will follow the release of the original platforms.

So in the last analysis the success or otherwise of all this is not just dependent on us, it needs your continuing support, but we do recognize that if we can’t deliver a quality wargames experience in our very specialist niche area then you will not continue to support the Rules.

Best Wishes
JDM

[Robert241167]

Check page 13 of this thread Jilu.

Rob

Oops, you've just pasted it as I post.

[hammy]

and if you do not have IPAD you may not play ?

What makes you think that?

I could swear that the anouncment I read said PC, Mac and iPad with another portable/printable version being considered.

[ValentinianVictor]

Without sounding too cynical, but why not delay the digital release of V2 until the solution to the paper version is found? Or is the worry that if both versions are released at the same time the likelyhood is the version that allows you to print a copy, say a standalone print on demand PDF, may out far outsell the digital only version?

What will be the situation if people do not buy into the digital only product due to anticipation of a printable version, will the printable version actually appear under those circumstances?

[MatteoPasi]

A question about 2.0 access (maybe a stupid question but I'm not Apple user so quite green in this tecknology): Applets will work only when users are intenet connected or once downloaded in the Iphone (or else) the software always run ? this is quite important for players, like me, that sometimes play where there is no access to the net (I have a table in the basement)
Thanks

[Polkovnik]

What will be the situation if people do not buy into the digital only product due to anticipation of a printable version, will the printable version actually appear under those circumstances?

I wasthinking the same thing, especially with this comment :

So in the last analysis the success or otherwise of all this is not just dependent on us, it needs your continuing support

Personally I won't be buying anything until the printable version comes out.

[kevinj]

Applets will work only when users are intenet connected or once downloaded in the Iphone (or else) the software always run ?

I depends on the App and what you're doing with it. If Internet access is not required for their functionality, then they should be able to run without it. For example, I use a number of Boardgame Apps on mine. If I want to play solo against the AI, they don't need Internet access. If I want to play against someone else online, they do.

Obviously, I can't comment on the V2 app until I see it, but I'm hoping that it wouldn't need Internet access for general play.

[IainMcNeil]

The internet connection is only required when you are downloading an update. Once its on your device you do not need a connection.

[MatteoPasi]

The internet connection is only required when you are downloading an update. Once its on your device you do not need a connection.

Ok, thanks

[babyshark]

JD:

I know I am late to the field in posting my reply, but thank you very much for realizing the need for a paper version of FoG 2.0 and taking steps to get it done.

Marc

[atatnet]

Thank you for the update, JD. Much appreciated.

Would it be possible to release the 'paper' version at the same time as the virtual versions so that those who prefer the paper version wouldn't be left out?

[mbsparta]

When we are talking about a printable copy do you mean like the V2 playtest rules we used? If so ... yuck

I have already voiced my desire ... I prefer a V2 rulebook as nice as and similar to the V1 rulebook. One thing that got me to try FoG was the professional presentation of the rulebook. I bought it as a "vacation" read out of curiosity. I was pleasantly suprised by both the quality of the book and the rules. I have been playing ever since. I think Slitherine is underestimating the value of appearance. I have been a police officer for 34 years. The fist step in being professional is looking professional. Maybe that doesn't apply to retail ... But I believe it does.

I wish them the best with V2.

Mike B