is france very weak in 2.1 gs ?

[afalarco]

taht is may question, i am play against IA and france have all units in only 5 or 7 steps. is only against ia or is in pbm games to ?? other question in nort-africa, y pull-back the italians to bengasy and spawn one tank and two german corps in africa, is that only for play against IA or is this event for pbm to ? ( escuse my bad english )

[Kragdob]

This is against AI only.

[Samhain]

Considering that France fell in only 40 days (2 turns) in reality I'd say France is TOO STRONG unless you "nerf"* it, which I have but it still takes longer to fall than in real life.
* I have modded to reduce France's starting manpower and research to 0. Germany meanwhile has all research already done but it still takes too long. With blitzkrieg anyway.

[Cybvep]

@up France is too strong in case of "historical" Sitzkrieg, but not because of its units (arguably its army is not strong enough in-game), but because of the way Case Yellow plays out in CEAW. It's always a war of attrition, with no major encirclements, excluding maybe the Maginot Line. A historical outcome is not even possible in most cases, because the Axis player conquers Belgium and Holland in one turn, before French units can be moved there.

[offrench]

I found found the following data in an article about the 1940 campaign of France.
The forces in presence are as follows (number of divisions):
France : 72 inf, 5 light cav, 3 mech, 3 armor
BEF : 10 inf, 1 armor
Belgium : 12 inf (equivalent)
Holland : 8 inf
Total for the allies : 124 divisions

Germany : 10 armor, 6 mot, 120 infantry

There are known weaknesses in the allies side: less tanks in armor divs, many tanks used in infantry support, obsolete equipment for some of the infantry, etc.
France had far more thanks than Germany in 1940 (3700 vs 2550); but far less combat aircraft (1400 vs 4000+)

I also find the number of French units in 2.1 gs a bit disappointing. It should normally be possible to hold a continuous front along the belgian border with infantry corps as well as the 2 mot corps.

That said, it is always difficult to simulate the collapse of the French army in 1940 on this scale unless you tone down the French army.
In the good old days of carboard wargaming the problem was the same in World in Flames.

[Cybvep]

That said, it is always difficult to simulate the collapse of the French army in 1940 on this scale unless you tone down the French army.
In the good old days of carboard wargaming the problem was the same in World in Flames.

Yeah, because IRL they were outmanoeuvred and then couldn't respond properly to this. With hindsight, any player will remain defensive and cautious. When you combine this with the fact that major encirclements happen very rarely in CEAW, it's pretty much impossible to have a historical Case Yellow in the game. Few games represent Case Yellow realistically, unfortunately.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I have yet to see any strategic WW2 game recreating Case Yellow accurately. One reason is, of course, that the Allied player will not repeat the mistakes of the real Allies. Germany's offensive succeeded because they managed to attack through the Ardennes where the Allies were particularly weak. In a game you will place the French forces in a way so you don't have a weakness there.
You won't rush the Allied units into Belgium either.

The scale of the hexes don't allow to tactical manoeuvers.

So most games I have played create the 1939-1940 setup so France actually falls at the appropriate time. You see this in e. g. World in Flames too.

You can see some encirclements in CeaW, particularly in the east. Usually the encirclements happen if the defending side refuses to retreat in time, as in the real war.