troops I hate

[pyrrhus17]

Elephants yep love the way they look but they suck , I also don't care for Cataphract's slow and no impact . I much like lancer cav better . cats cant be used against main inf line or cav they die slow but don't really contribute ( defense wing maybe ) Elephants not worth the points, slow, die to every type of light troops their attack is crap I have had them die to enemy heavy cav many times . I don't get this troop type at all any help ?

[TheGrayMouser]

Elephants yep love the way they look but they suck , I also don't care for Cataphract's slow and no impact . I much like lancer cav better . cats cant be used against main inf line or cav they die slow but don't really contribute ( defense wing maybe ) Elephants not worth the points, slow, die to every type of light troops their attack is crap I have had them die to enemy heavy cav many times . I don't get this troop type at all any help ?

Not sure what problems you are having with Cats, they tend to dominate everything if using them vs historical oppoennst ( they have the same impact as lancers and will 90% of the time be up a POA in melee as no-one has heavy armour until later medieval knights)

Elephants are one those oddities, they are expensive and can go down quick if unlucky or they can really cause a lotof havic. Glass tanks so to speak!

[Tiavals]

Use elephants against enemy horses, especially lancers, catapracts and knights. They work okay against legionaries too(until they get a single bad roll, then they break). Use skirmishers in front of the elephant so it doesn't get shot down by ranged units. Elephants seem fragile because of their high cost. Few Average units cost so much, so you'd naturally think elephants would be good in battle, but since they don't have the backup a superior unit has on poor rolls, they will easily get disrupted and then its over for them. Use them wisely and they are an unmatched unit in the army.

Like any lancers, catapracts are poor against steady spearmen. Thus, you need to unsteady them before you attack, after which they are extremely powerful.

[Morbio]

Elephants have 2 clear benefits which have been referenced (directly or indirectly) in the previous posts.

1) They disrupt horses, which is great when fighting cavalry.
2) They remove any armour bonuses for the defender.

So, elephants versus armoured or heavily armoured cavalry are great.

But, as stated, protect them from ranged attacks so they aren't too weak to fight the melee and support their attacks with other units.

[bjarmson]

TGM has it about right, elephants are glass tanks. They're living creatures and very susceptible to missile weapons, plus routing elephants create havoc on friendly troops in their way. I try to keep them behind my main fighting line (heavy infantry of some sort) and use them to dash into openings to attack enemy units on the verge of routing. Sometimes this can cause a kind of domino routing effect among enemy troops when steady elephants crash into them. I recommend against using them in the first wave of attacks, and I try to keep the area behind them free of troops when using them to attack. Use them right and they can be useful, use them wrong and they're a disaster.

[pyrrhus17]

I have a new hate yes its the Varangian Guard just a big disappointment really They die slow but so what I wish I could take 0 of them the Alexios i komnenos list is a bit of a stinker just enough stuff to be ineffective . I love the idea od Varangians but they never seem to be enough or effective enough . I really hate heavy weapons truly not very useful IMHO rathet have light spear

[TheGrayMouser]

I have a new hate yes its the Varangian Guard just a big disappointment really They die slow but so what I wish I could take 0 of them the Alexios i komnenos list is a bit of a stinker just enough stuff to be ineffective . I love the idea od Varangians but they never seem to be enough or effective enough . I really hate heavy weapons truly not very useful IMHO rathet have light spear

+

Yeah , heavy weapons is kinda a waste when the troops wielding them already have heavy armour.... I always argued Heavy weapons should have been broken down to two classes short ( ie huscarl axes poleaxes , fal,x two handers etc) vs "pole-armed" heavy weapons ie halberds bills etc with differnt poas and advantages disadvantages...

However, cant you take the Varangians as offensive spears in that list ?

[pyrrhus17]

No , no offensive spear option . I just wish I could take (0) of them . you have to take 2 (wtf) 2 is beyond dumb at least make them PLAYABLE , tHIS LIST NEEDS SOME WORK, To look historical all the cav suddenly switch to lance and you have not enough native knights available . The infantry options are very bad 4 Varangians and 4 defensive spear . personally I think def spear was a mistake as a troop type and hvy wpns make historicaly good troops ok to bad . IMHO that is . I turn the army into a ok performer ( I haven't played a human yet though ) just the comp vs pike ,romans , Indians , mongols , later crusader etc seems to do ok .

[Tiavals]

I think only Nikephorian greece later can take them with Offensive spears. Which is my faovourite unit in the game. HA OS Elites, yummy(although the elite catapracts with bows are awesome too). Too bad the rest of the nikephorians stink, hard, due to fake defensive spears and absolutely no MF(except three bowmen as allies). They're great if not in terrain, but if you have to face the dailami or something else in terrain, you're toast. Though the list does look better than I remembered(especially if played bow heavy), hmm....

As for the Komeneans, the later list is much better with it's HA knights, but the Alexios Komnenos age list does have some flaws. At least they get 3 MF Impact and they defensive spears are the real deal. Even drilled MF archers!
I'd say they're an excellent army against the dreaded Early Crusader(1098-99), since their Armored Offensive spears will crack like eggs under the Elite HA HW varangians. HA means + poa, and HW means that unlike swordsmen, the spears can be steady if they wish, it doesn't matter. The enemy knights can be a bit difficult, since you get only a handful of knights and def spears, but with that many drilled archers and horse archers, the threat they present can be dealt with(and if they go to melee against the varangians, they may be better on impact but in the melee phase they aint'!). Unlike the other pre 1100 armies(well, from S&S, dailami don't count ;P, besides even they have problems if the Sup spears don't disrupt), Komneans have the ability to go on the offensive against the crusaders.
Heavy weapons have their uses(mainly against pikes and spears that aren't disrupted), even with heavy armor on(many spears have armored), you just have to be really careful around any cavalry. Obviously one would prefer offensive spears for them, but you have to use what you can get. There's a billion other armies that are worse, so I don't see a problem.
From a historical perspective, of course, I have absolutely zero insight.