bagration

[soldier]

You have to hold 4 objectives, did you win it ?
I'm guessing a cannonbird is a bomber, what is a kate ? never heard of it.

[edahl1980]

You have to hold 4 objectives, did you win it ?
I'm guessing a cannonbird is a bomber, what is a kate ? never heard of it.

Cannonbird is a Ju87-G. Very good for softening up hard targets.
Katyusha is Russian for Kate, so i call them Kate.


Turn 6. Situation under controll. Luftwaffe is very busy.


Last Stalin tank attacking sector 6. Stopped by fallschirmjager, gebrigsjager, neberwerfer and a cannonbird.
I didnt dare to move my TigerII down to finish off the kill as that was how i lost my Jagdpanther a few turns earlier.


Turn 10. Sector 7 is still being attacked but intensity is reduced and Soviet armor is suffering from my cannonbirds. Those trying to cross the bridge is met by a TigerII and a Panther.


Damaged tanks waiting for next round.

[edahl1980]

Decisive Victory is achieved. Because of our success, Germany negotiated peace with the Soviet Union. After such a battle, i wish peace was an alternative for my men. Instead i receive words from the oberkommando that we are transfered to the western front.
We are to spearhead the Ardennes offensive. A last breakout attempt to force the western allies to negotiate.
On the train, on our way to the west we mourn our losses, while we drink Russian vodka and sing "Ich hatt einen kameraden."

This late in the war we are unable to replace units lost. We did however recieve elite refreshments for the units we still have. And the luftwaffe have provided us with a new jetplane that will help us against the Americans and British.

[Locarnus]

Nice battle.

Looking at your force composition, I see lots of INF and especially lots of TAC.
On the other hand the fighter force is rather small (since all the TAC are non multirole).
How did you survive Italy and Overlord with this airforce/AA?

And most stunning for me is the armor force.
9 ARM/SPAT, ok, but including 3 legacy tanks?
That really looks like a tough fight.

Dont get me wrong, I think "historical" force compositions are somewhat more fun (eg in the scenarios where you have to think a lot about how to spend your prestige and AT and AA is used).
I just find it hard to self-restrict in the campaign.
Maybe I ll reconsider making a campaign path, that follows history regardless of your success/failure.

[edahl1980]

Nice battle.

Looking at your force composition, I see lots of INF and especially lots of TAC.
On the other hand the fighter force is rather small (since all the TAC are non multirole).
How did you survive Italy and Overlord with this airforce/AA?

And most stunning for me is the armor force.
9 ARM/SPAT, ok, but including 3 legacy tanks?
That really looks like a tough fight.

Dont get me wrong, I think "historical" force compositions are somewhat more fun (eg in the scenarios where you have to think a lot about how to spend your prestige and AT and AA is used).
I just find it hard to self-restrict in the campaign.
Maybe I ll reconsider making a campaign path, that follows history regardless of your success/failure.

Just finished the campaign with a decisive win in Berlin. I agree, 4 fighters is to little. I intended to have 6. I had 5, but one ran out of fuel in Stalingrad and since then i never had the prestige to buy another. So i decided to go with 4. I feared it would be to little when i transfered to the west and was expecting American and British planes to tear me, my tank force and luftwaffe to bits but it didnt happen.
I havent had any restrictions in this campaign. Reason i had the units i had is mainly 2 reasons.
1. I use what i have, and i obtain different type of units for different type of missions.
2. I didnt have prestige to upgrade more. If i did i would have fielded better tanks.

During Kursk the 2 King Tigers was actually PzIII's. The Elephant and JagdPanther was MarderII's. But the Panthers and PzIV's led the charge, followed up by wurfrahmen's and grenadiers following right behind to mop up cities. with PzIII/Marder II's as reserves covering flanks and rear and mopping up damaged enemy infantry tanks form time to time. I got a marginal win.

[Kerensky]

Grats on a successful run at Bagration. I very much look forward to your experience with this scenario on the advanced difficulty levels. That is, the bonus ones you unlock for defeating the USA on Field Marshal setting.

[flakfernrohr]

Yes, this version of Bagration is definitely different than the one in PG. I had that one down pat. Now I am trying to find the best ways in this version. The hard part for me is losing units that you have used in fighting for a while. I named them after famous units in these battles. 21st Panzer has its tanks, PZG, Pioniere, etc. just like LAAH, Gross Deutschland, Das Reich, Schwere Abeilung 503, 505, 507, etc.

[ijontichy]

Dont get me wrong, I think "historical" force compositions are somewhat more fun (eg in the scenarios...

The scenario is historic?

[aleader]

I am still wondering why if you are able to so easily beat these scenarios (Bagration, Berlin), how did you end up there to begin with? You must have lost handily on the earlier (easier)scenarios? I agree that sitting back and letting the AI come to you is a better strategy for those levels. I am usually too gung-ho to attack. I will try your strategy and see how it works. I found that aircraft were essentially useless against the JS-2's. I usually lost as many as I destroyed, and could not replace them. I will try the Ju87G and see how it does.

[edahl1980]

I am still wondering why if you are able to so easily beat these scenarios (Bagration, Berlin), how did you end up there to begin with? You must have lost handily on the earlier (easier)scenarios? I agree that sitting back and letting the AI come to you is a better strategy for those levels. I am usually too gung-ho to attack. I will try your strategy and see how it works. I found that aircraft were essentially useless against the JS-2's. I usually lost as many as I destroyed, and could not replace them. I will try the Ju87G and see how it does.

Marginal victories at Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk and Ardennes. I dont move fast enough.
Bagration is 10x harder than Berlin. Berlin was ridiculous.
I sometimes wonder about the decisive victory conditions in PC, when attacking. It feels like Allied General Soviet campaign

[yoky]

I had also big troubles with Bagration because I tried to beat Russians in the classical attacking manner and it did not work against such powered IS2's hordes. So, I took advise to rebuild my armoured army from weak PzIV to Tiger II's (5 units), all other units remained untouched due to prestige total depletion. I did not rely on Stukas - I had only one without significant help to reach victory but 4 fighters cleared the sky from Russians within 3 turns. Then I was able to hold the line and took DV.
Afterwards I moved to Ardennes with Marginal Victory only (you have to move long distances within limited time and Tigers II are capable to go only 4 hexes) and yeastarday I did West Germany with DV in 11 turns from 30. Again because of Tiger II's armoured forces. Low Tiger II's mobility was not an obstacle.
Frankly speaking, Tiger II is big animal and makes your life easier. Next time I will try the Bagration with weak forces again.

[Zleepyhead]

I had a somewhat different approach. I went for the old-fashioned Ottoman cannon fodder defense. Instead of putting all my experienced units (some with two heroes) up on the front line, I just bought a bunch of cheap stuff to burn some time while my fighters took control of the skies and my infantry entrenched in more defensible positions. As cannon fodder died off - which was quickly - I deployed my experienced corp in the rear and brought them up for the fight.

The number one problem is you can't set up on the Dnepier south of Mogliev. Same story below the confluence of the rivers. As a result, you get the big Soviet tanks on open ground and you will have to retreat. Why not just build your defense around narrower gaps and along the Berezina.

My reasoning was 1) it is a proven historical strategy although not a nice one (ask the Armenians) 2) it is also a proven strategy to have your best units moving to the front instead of at the front (Alexander the Great) 3) I was going to spend that much prestige repairing damage and 4) you really have to own the skies if you are going to pick a fight.

Anyway, it works. It is historically distasteful because the Nazis did not have any reserves in the area...due to the Soviets skill and leading one way and hitting the other. But it is fun to play it that way for sure.

[Goatman]

Sorry to dig this one out, but i had a successful run with a VERY simple tactic: camp
I camped the heck out of the soutwestern corner, just outside Baranovichi. Took me a couple tries to figure it out, but didn't lose a single unit. Holding an airfield is critical, and this is a great spot.

4 Tiger 1
6 rookie Tiger 2, bought for this mission
3 Panther
4 21cm arty
2 Hummel
2 Wurfrahmen (didnt have enough prestige to upgrade to Hummels)
6 FW 190-d
3 ME 410A
2 Do 217E

i had just about enough prestige to upgrade the 6 fighters, buy the 6 Tiger 2 and bring all units to full health.

The Tiger 2 are extremely important - Tiger 1 will not be able to soak up the massive incoming damage.
The Niemen river, just to the north, is a great natural barrier. Theres always enough time to prepare if any units try to cross, easy pickings.

Setup:

Deploy the tanks and aircraft first. Position the tanks, then deploy the arty on the second turn. Leave a tile space between the tanks and the arty, just in case any tanks need to retreat, they will need space to move.
Leave any infantry and whatnot out of the fight, they wont be needed till mop up, it will just add to the mess, or deploy them last and leave them be till things start to clear.
Position the 6 Tiger 2 in a vertical line facing East, 2 tiles out of the town and starting where the river bends. That's where most of the massacre will come from. It's ok to leave a space between tanks, use 1 or 2 Tiger 1 to cover the gap to the South, leave the rest in reserve - This s VERY important. If one of your tanks gets low on HP or ammo, pull it back and bring in a reserve. There will not be enough prestige to buy elite replacements throughout the mission, stick with regulars, better lose some XP then the whole unit. Camp 2 tanks by the bridge by the edge of the map, slightly northwest of the town. A few units will try to flank through, and will be ambushed.
One VERY important thing: HOLD THE LINE. Don't move tanks except to direct swap with reserves if low on ammo or health. That said, don't push. Else things will get out of control very quickly. Let the artys do their thing. No need to target anything manually, let them defend. Switch to manual once infantry gets close, they will wreck Tiger 2.
First phase is enemy aircraft. They will be relentless, and will fight till the very end, unlike other missions, where they will retreat when damaged, few exceptions. Keep your fighters together as much as possible, so they will always have backup. No need to use your bombers till the enemy fighters have been dealt with, they will just be picked on.
Once the skies are clear, use your bombers/fighters to harass enemy arty/Katyushas. Bombers will not be very effective against anything else, and it will force the AI to use a lot of prestige. When enemy mobile AA come in, pull out your bombers/fighters and use the arty to deal with them. Hummels are great for this.
IS-2 are a royal pain, but the Tiger 2 can take a beating. Cool thing: the IS-2 will be on the front line and will run out of ammo very quickly, so no need to panick. Look for any good chances of causing a surrender, there will be tons, it's good prestige. Chances are, it will happen even without trying.
Once the mess of tanks starts to clear and infantry gets to the front line, go on the offensive. Split in 3, push towards Minsk, Bobruisk and Vilna. There should be little resistance. Once you clear everything on the way to Minsk, spread out towards Vitebks and Smolensk. Note Tiger 2 are slow, so plan accordingly.

Win.

[CarltonAce1]

I don't mind the hard mission. I mean loss is inevitable. half the fun is replaying it over and over to get a acceptable victory. Also, sleep helps. If you loss, get a good nights sleep or take a few days off and try again. It keeps your mind working and frustration down. Frustration just leads to more mistakes and a harder, less fun time of it. You and I will figure it out eventually. Good luck